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PHILADELPHIA PRIESTS ACCUSED BY GRAND JURY OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND COVER-UP
New York Times ^ | 2-10-11 | Jon Hurdle

Posted on 02/11/2011 7:11:53 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg

click here to read article


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To: Antoninus; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Did I say that the Boy Scouts don’t have the problem at all?

Go back and re read the post and post 60. Stop believing the lie that people don’t recognize that it happens elsewhere as well.

What I said was that the Boy Scouts are doing a BETTER job of dealing with the issue and protecting their boys tahn the Catholic church is doing.

Not a perfect job, not never happens there. A better job.

The Catholic church, with the moral high ground it takes, should be leading the way by example of how to deal with sexual exploitation of others by its clergy and it hasn’t.

They are in no position to point fingers about other’s sin, condemn them for lack or repentance, claim to exercise their alleged God given role to loose and bind the sins of others when they won’t even deal with the sin in the ranks of those who are alleged to have the power to refuse to remit sin and damn someone to hell as a result.

The hypocrisy is appalling.


101 posted on 02/12/2011 1:26:24 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Antoninus
And yet, we still love all of you no matter how much you hate and despise us, join together with the enemies of all Christians, and help them spread slander about us.

WHAT slander?

Catholics on FR have hardly shown love to those with whom they disagree. You may be different, but don't paint either side with a broad brush.

102 posted on 02/12/2011 1:30:12 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Antoninus; Dr. Eckleburg

If liberals have infiltrated your own church, then KICK THEM OUT. But don’t accuse us of slander for pointing out what everyone knows to be true.

How can you accuse us of slandering the RCC when things like this book admit that what we say is true?

Again, the criticism isn’t that stuff like this happens. it’s expected to for a variety of reasons. The criticism is int he inept and incompetent dealing with the matter.

Instead of dealing with it promptly and severely, the RCC has dragged its collective feet and in doing nothing has given its priests no reason to NOT engage in this kind of abominable behavior.


103 posted on 02/12/2011 1:36:28 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Antoninus; Dr. Eckleburg; metmom
You know nothing of the particulars of this situation...have been after the Church for years, using these accusations as a hammer...You'll note that these are still accusations, not convictions.

I NEVER CEASE TO BE AMAZED BY THOSE WHO DEFEND PEDOPHILES.
104 posted on 02/12/2011 2:05:56 PM PST by TSgt (Colonel Allen West & Michele Bachman - 2012 POTUS Dream Team Ticket!)
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To: Antoninus; metmom; Quix; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg
Not at all. The Scouts have exactly the same problem: Scouting sex abuse cases

But they don't move troop leaders from one unsuspecting troop to another, now do they?

They problem, that the Papists don't want to admit is that the Roman Catholic Church has been systematically hiding pedophile priests.

That is the issue.

Even the Papists here on FR will deny the Roman Catholic Church's guilt in this. We will see:

-Denial. Well just look at the Boy Scouts and teachers. We have the same problem as everyone else. Never mind that an institution that calls itself a church is held to a higher standard.
-Ad Homs Anyone that dares to call this what it is, rape, is a rabid anti-Catholic. How dare they say anything against Rome!
-Deflection "Well, it's the homosexual priests and the boys are teenagers." It's almost as if teen-aged boys seduced the priests! Never mind that girls and young boys have been raped.

105 posted on 02/12/2011 2:15:26 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Gamecock
They problem, that the Papists don't want to admit is that the Roman Catholic Church has been systematically hiding pedophile priests.

When there is a concerted effort to cover this high up, one can only assume the abuse goes all the way to the top.. and they risk exposure themselves

106 posted on 02/12/2011 2:31:14 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

It’s time for Philly to take out the trash!


107 posted on 02/12/2011 2:32:40 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: Rashputin
Now there’s a wonderful testament to the power of the Lord. He can't seem to do anything about the largest Christian Church on earth and hasn't been able to do anything for two thousand plus years. Excuse me, I mean for fifteen hundred years he was incapable of doing anything. Five hundred years ago there was a split that generated thousands of different churches in accordance with Christ praying that His church be as one, and that's what he did about it. I gotcha. Jim Jones, David Koresh, and fifty thousand like him in this country alone, is what He did about it after only fifteen centuries.

That's what you get when you fall for the fairy tales put out by your religion instead of looking in the scriptures to see what God has to say about it...And He says plenty...

Your religion is not the church Jesus Christ built...Your religion is condemned by God all thru the New Testament...

108 posted on 02/12/2011 2:38:15 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: metmom; Antoninus; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
What I said was that the Boy Scouts are doing a BETTER job of dealing with the issue and protecting their boys tahn the Catholic church is doing.

Without reading this thread I'm sure RC's have offered the defense that until the priests are convicted they shouldn't do anything, "innocent until proven guilty", after all. In something like sex abuse it makes sense to have law enforcement investigate before jumping to conclusions.

However, until the investigation is completed any accused should be removed from contact with any children. For example, my church had a church worker accused of sexual abuse at a summer camp we run. Our pastor told us of the accusation on the first Sunday following the accusation. The individual accused was pulled from the camp and all contact with children. Police were called immediately when the accusation was made. A couple weeks later our pastor told us that the investigation had been completed the accused had been cleared of all charges and that we should pray for the accuser because the accuser suffered from a mental disorder. All this was done with no secrecy and as a result no one expressed any concern about having their children around the wrongfully accused camp worker.

A policy of open disclosure has never been the RCC practice. This alone is why they should not be trusted.

The Catholic church, with the moral high ground it takes, should be leading the way by example of how to deal with sexual exploitation of others by its clergy and it hasn’t.

MM you are being too kind. Where exactly is the RCC near the moral high ground on an issue?

109 posted on 02/12/2011 3:08:51 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: metmom; Antoninus
Ant: And yet, we still love all of you no matter how much you hate and despise us,...

What a bunch of "poor me" rot. It is your church that calls Born Again Christians "separated brethren". It is your church that calls Evangelical Churches defective, sects, protestants, and assemblies, but never churches. It is your church that fails to teach it's members The Gospel. It is your church that requires all submit to it in order to be in good standing with it.

Your church with it's exclusionary anti-Christian attitude and flawed theology separated itself from Christianity. Born Again Christians pray for the lost RC's to believe The Gospel and be freed from the RCC, but never for the beast that imprisons people.

110 posted on 02/12/2011 3:19:35 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Evil behavior and evil itself are not found only in the RC. Neither is support of those who commit evil behavior.

Martin's friends and family sought leniency, saying he had learned his lesson and would never commit similar actions.

Martin's wife, Kristal Martin, also pleaded for a lesser sentence. The Martins have a 4-year-old son, and Kristal Martin is pregnant with another son due in October. Tears streamed down her face as she addressed the court as her husband sobbed quietly at the defendant table.

Kristal Martin said her husband has undergone counseling that "has changed him completely.

"We have a son who loves his dad very much," Kristal Martin said. "Consider mercy so that our children might have the opportunity to be with their dad. I love him very much."

There is more but the point is that even outside the RC, people close to the predator tend to think they have changed or want to believe it badly enough to hope it won't happen again.

111 posted on 02/12/2011 3:27:54 PM PST by MarMema
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To: wmfights

I meant the moral high ground it professes to be taking.

Or perhaps the moral high ground it claims, would have been a better way of wording it.

Sorry.


112 posted on 02/12/2011 3:30:05 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Shiloh Baptist Church leaders had hired the Rev. Chavalis T. Williams in mid-March, even though they knew he had pleaded guilty in Florida to charges of child abuse and using children in a sexual performance.

REALLY? They hired him knowing he had admitted guilt in court to use of children in a sexual performance??? Is that not incredible?

113 posted on 02/12/2011 3:31:59 PM PST by MarMema
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To: wmfights; Antoninus
It is your church that calls Evangelical Churches defective, sects, protestants, and assemblies, but never churches.

And cults and heretics. Don't forget that we're called cults and heretics by the Catholics.

That sounds like hate and despise when you're on the receiving end and not the giving end.

114 posted on 02/12/2011 3:33:28 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
A new pastor took over at the church on Dec. 15. Another of the church's deacons, Edward Hall, said Ford remains highly regarded by many within the congregation.
115 posted on 02/12/2011 3:34:39 PM PST by MarMema
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Read the documents. It’s all there.

Oh, I'm sure it is!! This is just so.....so........amazing! The documents.....of course......why didn't I ever think of reading Catholic documents?

Tell it to me again.

Just how bad is the Roman Catholic church??

Is any of us really safe?

116 posted on 02/12/2011 3:35:07 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: metmom
Sorry.

Don't be Sister. Sometimes I just let go.

117 posted on 02/12/2011 3:36:08 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: MarMema; Dr. Eckleburg

From same article....

“The decision to hire Williams was sharply criticized at the time by several members of the congregation, and he was removed Thursday following a vote by church officials.”

They were wrong to hire him, but it was not done with unanimous consent.

Fortunately, he was removed although how he got in in the first place is a mystery.


118 posted on 02/12/2011 3:38:15 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarMema; Dr. Eckleburg

I daresay, that is not representative behavior or policy for Baptist churches as a whole.


119 posted on 02/12/2011 3:39:07 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Accused Baptist pastor is protected by elders

"On Sept. 26, The American Baptist Churches of Massachusetts notified lay leaders of the First Baptist Church of Winchester that their pastor, the Rev. Lawrence French, had been found guilty by a church panel of sexually molesting three boys between 1960 and 1982.

"But First Baptist is a congregation that reveres its pastor. And so a dozen church elders decided unanimously that French, who says he is innocent, should remain as pastor. Convinced that the 72-year-old pastor could not have committed the alleged offenses, they also concluded that it would be unfair to French to notify other members of the church about the allegations."

OK? Do you see it? There are other churches, protestant churches, in which the accused are protected and the accusation is kept silent.

It's not just Rome. Hope you can see that now...sometimes it is just human nature.

120 posted on 02/12/2011 3:39:10 PM PST by MarMema
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To: Iscool
He says plenty?

He says that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church and for fifteen hundred years he hid it under a bushel basket just for chits and giggles? He says the Word would be preached throughout the earth but for a minimum of fifteen hundred years He made sure no one could read the word without the wrong people translating it for them and teaching them to read? He says His Church is city on a hill but for fifteen hundred years he was teasing and kept it in tiny groups that left not a single written word and depended on the Bible as translated and compiled by the evil Catholic Church?

I understand. Like I said, I got it now. It's a matter of everyone reading and interpreting the Scripture for themselves just like you do. And like you, they can decide that for fifteen hundred years Christ chose to have his Church hidden rather than standing firm for him against little things like the Islamic invasion of the Balkans, Austria, Spain, and France. And he chose to have those parts of the Church that separated from it fall to Islam in North Africa and the Byzantine Empire. He chose to spare that portion that should have never been split off but due to human frailty as the Eastern Church but that's just coincidence. It's sad that he hid His Church rather than having it start universities and hospitals, preserve every scrap of Greek and Latin writings they could find, and extra special good that they weren't fighting heresy as it blossomed. It's good to know that each and every person who has ever called themselves Catholic is taking part in a little fairy tale fantasy of some sort.

It's just too bad everyone wasn't interpreting Scriptures for themselves because they could have avoided all the problems we're having these days with Islamic jihad. Yeah, see that proves your point again. If things had been done as you assert they should be, we'd all be Muslim and there wouldn't be any reason for these endless discussions that serve primarily to make all Christians look petty and no reason for your assertion that everyone who ever was in the Catholic hierarchy is guilty of buggery and conspiracy to perpetuate said buggery.

have just a lovely evening

121 posted on 02/12/2011 3:39:17 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: metmom
Don't forget that we're called cults and heretics by the Catholics.

Good catch, Sorry. ;-)

I think the point is they are schizophrenic. On the one hand they go out of their way to be separate from Bible believing Born Again Christians and then they claim they are a part of us and "love" us.

122 posted on 02/12/2011 3:39:37 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: marshmallow


The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests


SNAP Press Statement

For immediate release: Friday, February 11, 2011

Summary of Philadelphia Grand Jury Report 2/11

After a detailed two year investigation, here’s what impartial grand jurors found.

The archdiocese
—“continues to engage in practices that mislead victims, that violate their trust, that hinder prosecution of their abusers and that leave large numbers of credibly accused priests in ministry”
—After more than four months, has still not fully complied with the grand jury’s subpoena
—“not much has changed” since a scathing 2005 report by another grand jury
—“has betrayed once again” the victims who report to its staffers

The archdiocesan abuse system
—“is designed to help the abusers and the archdiocese itself ”
—“is devoid of common sense”
—“reaches the wrong result in the vast majority of (child sex abuse) cases.”

The “predatory priests still in ministry” (the jury’s words)
—“dozens of apparent abusers remain on duty in the archdiocese today with access to new young prey”
—at least 37 priests with “substantial evidence of abuse” have been kept in assignments that expose them to children”
—at least “41 priests who have remained in active ministry in the past five years after the Archdiocese learned of accusations or reports of their inappropriate behavior or sexual abuse of minors.”
—only two of these 41 have been listed on the Archdiocese’s website as credibly accused, which means the identity of most of these priests remains unknown even to their parishioners.”

The so-called “victims assistance coordinators”
—“mislead victims”
—“do not keep victims’ statements confidential”
—“turn over” victims’ statements “to archdiocesan attorneys”
—“handed previously confidential” victim’s records “over to the victim’s abuser”
—“hound” victims to “give statements to “use as ammunition to impeach victims”

Msgr. William Lynn (for years, until 2004, a high ranking chancery staffer)
—“put literally thousands of children at risk of sexual abuse by placing them in the care of known child molesters” over the past two decades.”
—“was acutely interested in shielding abusive clergy from criminal detection, in shielding the Cardinal from scandal, and in shielding the Archdiocese from financial liability.”
— “showed no interest at all in defending the Archdiocese’s children. On the contrary, he consistently endangered them.”
—called his conduct in “dealing with abusive priests” to be “dangerous and indefensible”
—“knowingly exposed children to predatory priests”
— “acted as if his job was to protect the abuser, never the abused”
—his “refusal to curb” two known predators “led directly to the rape of (two boys)”

(SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, is the world’s oldest and largest support group for clergy
abuse victims.)


123 posted on 02/12/2011 3:46:06 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: MarMema; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
OK? Do you see it? There are other churches, protestant churches, in which the accused are protected and the accusation is kept silent.

It's not just Rome. Hope you can see that now...sometimes it is just human nature.

Nobody ever said it was just Rome.

The issue is and remains that the Roman Catholic church was just not in denial about the problem, but knew about it and either didn't do anything or went out of its way to cover it up until FORCED to deal with it as damage control after the bad publicity.

All the attempts to commend them for doing the *right* thing fail because until the light was shown on what was going on, they WEREN'T doing the right thing. They only resorted to that when they had to.

If they did the right thing in the first place, we wouldn't be having this constant barrage of stories like this.

Also, appealing to *human nature* doesn't hold water with those professing to be Christians. If one is a Christian, they have the Spirit of God living within them. It's not just the human nature any more. We are no longer slaves to that nature that we should obey it's whims and demands.

We are called to a higher standard by God, that standard is laid out for us in the Scripture that the Catholic church does everything in its power to dismiss, and any Christian has within them the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome the *human nature* and do the RIGHT thing. Not the convenient thing, or the expedient thing, or the easy thing.

The right thing.

And the right thing to do is laid out in Scripture.

1 Corinthians 5

124 posted on 02/12/2011 3:51:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The report said Rear admitted to several people, including his wife, Kerrie, that he had sex with the girl. According to the report, he said “the devil had taken over his body.” Members of Westport Baptist, where Rear has preached for the past 10 years, refuse to believe the charges. “The church is behind our pastor all the way,” said deacon Billy Elliott of the 75-member congregation.

Just one more in case...

125 posted on 02/12/2011 3:55:48 PM PST by MarMema
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

If you can point to specific errors in my post please do so. Otherwise the truth of what I have stated remains.


126 posted on 02/12/2011 4:03:25 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I do not know where you get that from.Preference comes from quite a few areas,so do opinions. I have worked in the court system, I have policed and have been elected to a political office and have a lot of experience throughout life. I have seen everything personally of what I speak of here and although I know you cant base everything on what I have seen. Add what I have seen for over 30 years and what I have read in the news the last 16 years. I will bet I am correct.
127 posted on 02/12/2011 4:05:17 PM PST by RocketRoland
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To: MarMema

“Behind him” as in praying for his soul as he is charged and perhaps convicted.

What a contrast between that and Rome’s outright denial of accusations, refusal to go to police authorities, and hiding priests as they shuttle them from one unsuspecting parish to another.


128 posted on 02/12/2011 4:05:17 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Gamecock; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

NOTE to archivists—the STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY BELOW HAVE BEEN CORRECTED & AMENDED.


Of course . . . it’s all realted to the following Stations

of the Stations Of The White Hanky:

2. BLACK/WHITE ICON OF DUPLICITY, DOUBLE STANDARD DANCE

3. THE ICON OF THE IVORY HANDLED DAGGER—HONORING THE DOCTRINE OF—WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS—KILL THE MESSENGER.

4. ICON OF THE GOLDEN GYMNAST BACK-FLIPPER—TO HONOR THE DOCTRINE OF CHRONICALLY CHANGING THE SUBJECT

5. ICON OF THE MARBLE STATUE OF PEANUTS PIGPIN THROWING DUST IN THE AIR—IN HONOR OF THE DOCTRINE OF OBFUSCATIONS TO THE SUPREME DEGREE

10. ICON OF THE 6.66” IVORY NOSE STUCK HIGH IN THE AIR—IN HONOR OF THE DOCTRINE OF HUBRIS TO THE SUPREME DEGREE

11. ICON OF THE GOLDEN GROPING HAND—GROPING FOR ANY EXPLANATION BUT THE TRUTH [No, I do NOT know which leader of athletic altar boys offered his hand as a model]

12. ICON of the teak wood flip-flops from Hawaii in honor of the doctrine of THE HOLY FLIP-FLOPS IN WORD MEANINGS AND ARGUMENTS

13. ICON of the gold Bishop’s ring with the hidden poison pill well in honor of the doctrine TO THE KILL-THE-MESSENGER-IN-WORSHIPFUL-BEHALF-OF-MARY STRATEGY

14. ICON of the gilded ivory halo in honor of THE FANTASIZED DIVINE RIGHT, TO BE CORRECT, PRISTINELY SANCTIFIED & PERFECTLY FLAWLESS IN ALL RESPECTS IN ALL CASES ALL THE TIME, REGARDLESS.

15. ICON of the marble bust of John SKerry in honor of the doctrine of CHRONIC & OBSESSIVE INCONSISTENCY.

17. ICON of the gilded ivory nose with olive branch surround in honor of the doctrine of THE UNDIVINE RIGHT OF TERMINAL SNOOTINESS TO THE MAX.

18. ICON OF THE SLIPPERY GOLDEN DANCE SHOES FOR DANCING THE RATIONALIZING-WEASEL-WORD-JITTER-BUG.

19. ICON OF THE GILDED IVORY AK47 IN BEHALF OF RC RABID CLIQUE DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS AT PRODDYS ON BLOGS FAR AND WIDE.

20. ICON OF THE GOLDEN THUMB SUCK IN HONOR OF RC’S RELIGIOUS DUTY TO BE TERMINALLY OFFENDED 24/7/365.

21. ICON of the silver figurine of the lofted tail of a skunk in honor of NAUSEATING NASTINESS in the faithful SERVICE OF the caricatured Magnificent Magical Mummy Mary.

22. ICON of the golden sharp stick—in honor of the Religious Duty Of Obligation to poke a sharp stick into the nearest Proddy’s eyes or gut and then to run wailing and whining at top frequency and top volume to the nearest authority when the Proddy dares to have a response.


129 posted on 02/12/2011 4:05:24 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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Comment #130 Removed by Moderator

To: MarMema

HORRIFIC.

OUTRAGEOUS.


131 posted on 02/12/2011 4:08:45 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RocketRoland

Correct on what? I don’t understand your point.


132 posted on 02/12/2011 4:09:00 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Palladin

I read enough of your excellent post to know the record is

BEYOND UNMITIGATEDLY OUTRAGEOUS.

Please excuse my not reading the whole post. I just ate.


133 posted on 02/12/2011 4:13:40 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RocketRoland
America needs to be blown off the face of the earth.

I say we start with you. Welcome Islam? You are either stupid or forgot the sarc tag.

134 posted on 02/12/2011 4:13:58 PM PST by houeto (Government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed.)
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To: Petrosius
If you can point to specific errors in my post please do so. Otherwise the truth of what I have stated remains.

lol. I don't have to show you anything other than what I have already shown you -- Ratzinger's own letter and Rome's own discourse on keeping pederast priests on the job and away from the prying eyes of parents and police.

I can't make you read Ratzinger's letter or Crimen Sollicitationis. I've given you both in POST 27. I've noted only some of the errors and even given you paragraphs to read.

If you prefer to shut your eyes, then so be it.

135 posted on 02/12/2011 4:19:35 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: metmom
We are called to a higher standard by God, that standard is laid out for us in the Scripture that the Catholic church does everything in its power to dismiss, and any Christian has within them the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome the *human nature* and do the RIGHT thing. Not the convenient thing, or the expedient thing, or the easy thing.

The right thing.

And the right thing to do is laid out in Scripture.

1 Corinthians 5

AMEN! For those with eyes to see.

136 posted on 02/12/2011 4:22:40 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RocketRoland; metmom
America needs to be blown off the face of the earth. Priest,Teachers,Pedophiles & Homosexuals are stripping our youth of their innocence and turning them into perverts. Therefore America has become a perveted nation.Maybe we should welcome Islam! Think about it.

WOW! And you, newbie, dare post this to a freeper dumb,have tunnel vision or maybe just uninformed. Maybe you were just born yesterday. I dont know but I say what I mean and mean what I say. Born in the USA!

Take your rocket, your 'therefore' with your islam, out of here.
137 posted on 02/12/2011 4:27:35 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: MarMema
And, as an Orthodox priest asked us after a sermon recently, who can follow all the commandments perfectly? (much less what Scripture teaches us) No one. Not anyone on this thread at least.

God knew that we could never keep them . They reflect HIS character.. they were given to us so that we know what sinners we are and that we need a Savior and to lead us to Him

138 posted on 02/12/2011 4:30:20 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: MarMema
Did you even read the article?

"The American Baptist Churches of Massachusetts...the governing body of churches...withdrew recognition of French's ordination."

This is precisely what the Roman Catholic church does NOT do. The hierarchy of the RCC hides these priests and keeps them at their jobs, in contact with vulnerable children and unsuspecting families.

139 posted on 02/12/2011 4:32:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RocketRoland; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
IATZ

Bye-bye, troll....


140 posted on 02/12/2011 4:57:14 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: houeto

RR has left the building.

Not of his own free will.


141 posted on 02/12/2011 4:58:20 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Palladin; metmom; Quix; presently no screen name
Great post. Thanks.

The article beginning this thread speaks of the unbelievable and blatant guilt of the diocese itself. Not just individual priests or church officials.

The Diocese.

The report also charged Msgr. William Lynn, secretary of clergy in the archdiocese under former Cardinal Anthony J. Bevilacqua, with endangering the welfare of children by allowing “dangerous” priests to remain in place. Monsignor Lynn was responsible for investigating abuse allegations from 1992 to 2004.

“The rapist priests we accuse were well known to the Secretary of Clergy, but he cloaked their conduct and put them in place to do it again,” the grand jury said.

Monsignor Lynn faces a maximum of 14 years in prison if convicted on all charges.

"All of them witches."

142 posted on 02/12/2011 5:03:47 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Quix

Quix, I took time to read the entire Grand Jury report. It was so disgusting, I had to throw up.

I am a lifelong Catholic and I am thoroughly distressed by the fact that Cardinals, Bishops, and Pastors have been covering up for these hideous perverts for decades.

I hope the Pennsylvania Legislature will take this Grand Jury report into consideration and change the law so that there is NO statute of limitations on the crime of child rape.


143 posted on 02/12/2011 5:03:47 PM PST by Palladin (Obama, go back to Hawaii! Better yet, go back to Kenya!!)
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To: metmom

Wonder if his rocket hit that lightening? ;) ‘


144 posted on 02/12/2011 5:11:04 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Let us see what then Cardinal Ratzinger's letter actually says. The section pertaining to which crimes are reserved to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith is the following:
The more grave delicts both in the celebration of the sacraments and against morals reserved to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith are:
-Delicts against the sanctity of the most august eucharistic sacrifice and the sacraments, namely:
1. Taking or retaining the consecrated species for a sacrilegious purpose or throwing them away.(4)
2. Attempting the liturgical action of the eucharistic sacrifice or simulating the same.(5)
3. Forbidden concelebration of the eucharistic sacrifice with ministers of ecclesial communities which do not have apostolic succession and do not recognize the sacramental dignity of priestly ordination.(6)
4. Consecrating for a sacrilegious purpose one matter without the other in the eucharistic celebration or even both outside a eucharistic celebration.(7)

-Delicts against the sanctity of the sacrament of penance, namely:
1. Absolution of an accomplice in sin against the Sixth Commandment of the Decalogue.(8)
2. Solicitation in the act, on the occasion or under the pretext of confession, to sin against the Sixth Commandment of the Decalogue, if it is directed to sin with the confessor himself.(9)
3. Direct violation of the sacramental seal.(10)

-A delict against morals, namely: the delict committed by a cleric against the Sixth Commandment of the Decalogue with a minor below the age of 18 years.

Only these delicts, which are indicated above with their definition, are reserved to the apostolic tribunal of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Thus priest abuse is included among what the church considers the most serious of crimes. It is precisely because of its seriousness, and admittedly because Rome was dissatisfied with the way the bishops were handling the cases, that it is so included. Look again at the list of other crimes. Unless you would want to us to believe that the church also wanted to cover-up these crimes you cannot have us believe that is why abuse by priest is included. No, Rome wanted this to be treated with more seriousness.

There follows the next section:

As often as an ordinary or hierarch has at least probable knowledge of a reserved delict, after he has carried out the preliminary investigation he is to indicate it to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which unless it calls the case to itself because of special circumstances of things, after transmitting appropriate norms, orders the ordinary or hierarch to proceed ahead through his own tribunal.
Did you get that, the case is to be referred to a TRIBUNAL, i.e. to a court. This is a place of judgment. Indeed, the next sentence reads:
The right of appealing against a sentence of the first instance, whether on the part of the party or the party's legal representative, or on the part of the promoter of justice, solely remains valid only to the supreme tribunal of this congregation.
Thus the purpose of this procedure is to ascertain guilt or innocence and to apply a penalty to the guilty, not to cover-up a crime. This is made clear in the following section:
All tribunals of the Latin church and the Eastern Catholic churches are bound to observe the canons on delicts and PENALTIES, and also on the penal process of both codes respectively, together with the special norms which are transmitted by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for an individual case and which are to be executed entirely.
I can't make you read Ratzinger's letter or Crimen Sollicitationis. I've given you both in POST 27.

I suggest that it is you who should read Crimen sollicitationis. There you will find the following paragraph under TITLE NUMBER THREE: PENALTIES:

61. "He who has committed the crime of solicitation (note: again I will point out that Crimen solliciationis is only concerned with solicitation with Confession. These acts outside of Confession are not covered. At the time these were covered by the ordinary processes.) …, should be suspended from the celebration of the Mass and from the hearing of sacramental confessions or even, according to the gravity of the delict, should be declared incapable of accepting them. He should be deprived of all benefices and dignities, of his active and passive voice, and be declared incapable of all these [honors and capacities], and in the more grievous cases ALSO BE SUBJECT TO REDUCTION [TO THE LAY STATE]. Thus states the Code in Canon 2368, § 1.
Ratzinger's own letter and Rome's own discourse on keeping pederast priests on the job and away from the prying eyes of parents and police.

Please show that if you can. The pontifical secret to which you constantly refer only applies to the internal canonical investigation. Nothing in Canon Law or the documents that you have presented ever prevented a victim or his family from going to the police.

145 posted on 02/12/2011 5:16:03 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: metmom
I daresay, that is not representative behavior or policy for Baptist churches as a whole.

Nor, despite the hysterics, is it the policy of the Catholic Church as a whole.

146 posted on 02/12/2011 5:19:57 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: metmom
RR has left the building. Not of his own free will.

Suits me just fine. Thanks for the heads up metmom.

147 posted on 02/12/2011 5:20:05 PM PST by houeto (Government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed.)
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To: metmom
That's why I'm a Presbyterian.

Accountability is good, thus the Presbyterian form of church government (which became the pattern for our representative form of civil government) with its built-in checks and balances where pastors are accountable to the congregation and the congregations are accountable to the Presbytery.

Baptists have too little accountability, but that is nothing compared to Rome with it's corrupt, authoritarian form of government where church polity is decided by a bunch of old men in dresses headed up by a false bishop of Rome who try to convince the congregations of their "infallibility."

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

Tragically, when Roman Catholics are fooled, their children often pay the price.

148 posted on 02/12/2011 5:20:59 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: marshmallow
Is any of us really safe?

Sure. All those who have been graced with faith alone in Christ alone.

Read your Bible. Learn the truth.

149 posted on 02/12/2011 5:24:20 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
This is precisely what the Roman Catholic church does NOT do. The hierarchy of the RCC hides these priests and keeps them at their jobs, in contact with vulnerable children and unsuspecting families.

Keep up with the times. This is indeed what the Catholic Church is doing. I admit that individual bishop in the past did not but they were acting against church policy. At the present the Catholic Church at all levels is vigorously pursuing these cases.

150 posted on 02/12/2011 5:24:48 PM PST by Petrosius
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