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To: lastchance

I have never viewed the freedom to read and learn under the power of the Holy Spirit, about the truths in the bible, as ‘being your own pope.’ I would say most non-catholics do not view it that way, but I would say many catholics would. Of course it doesn’t mean we are free to teach incorrect doctrines, we never said that’s what that grants. We have no disagreement there. The fact that people have, will and continue to teach heresies, does not mean the rest of us are in favor of teaching heresies. I think one example is the exodus of folks from ELCA over their current blatant heresy regarding homosexuality.

Yes, I agree about the prosperity folks. But the bottom line with their heresy is legalism. They just figured out how to get rich off their particular legalism. The legalism is that if YOU don’t believe enough, if YOU don’t have enough faith, you can’t be healed, or that’s why you still have money problems. God wants you to be rich but if you don’t claim the promise and believe it, it won’t happen. So it’s your fault. But I will also say this is not the exclusive realm of protestant ministers, I would not say the roman church is immune from such people in the pulpits as well.

As far as pointing it out, the fact is protestant churches as a general rule have a lot more power to reprimand and dismiss such pastors over a catholic congregation. And they do send them packing, for this reason and others.

What our position is about other documents such as the Confessions is that they are correct insofar as they are derived from Scripture and agree with Scripture. At the same time, they are not superior from Scripture, or that they add to, or are needed and Scripture is incomplete without them. They are statements of belief and the statements explain themselves because they are built on Scripture (which is included as part of the document). The document is based on the Word of God but is not the Word of God. While the Confessions may provide to someone the basis for a particular denomination’s beliefs, the Word of God does not need the Confessions; but the Confessions must have and needs the Word of God, as the Bible is the Confessions’ foundation. The Word of God is its own foundation. Further don’t disregard the fact the Confessions have been tested against the Word of God by many, and continually tested throughout the ages that Scripture has not been mis-applied in order to somehow support someone’s pet heresy. They are not just written and never critically examined again.

Per your last paragraph, I am not sure I agree that every single heretical view comes from one individual as you put it ‘being their own pope’. For one thing, a person can hold an incorrect belief out of ignorance, and at some point, in their genuine studies, realize they were in error. Few Christians can say they haven’t had this happen to them as they have matured in their study of God’s Word, talking with other Christians, parents, pastors.

I also believe that councils of people have voted to make certain incorrect doctrines “valid” and other valid doctrines “heresies” - not just one person doing so. The ruling council of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is but one example. Not to be argumentative as I have enjoyed the discussion, but I would have to lump the Council of Trent in there as well.

Anyways, I have enjoyed the discussion with you.


12 posted on 02/16/2011 9:52:37 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“What our position is about other documents such as the Confessions is that they are correct insofar as they are derived from Scripture and agree with Scripture. At the same time, they are not superior from Scripture, or that they add to, or are needed and Scripture is incomplete without them. They are statements of belief and the statements explain themselves because they are built on Scripture (which is included as part of the document). The document is based on the Word of God but is not the Word of God. While the Confessions may provide to someone the basis for a particular denomination’s beliefs, the Word of God does not need the Confessions; but the Confessions must have and needs the Word of God, as the Bible is the Confessions’ foundation.”

Yes I agree that is the position of Sola Scriptura. They have their authority in Scripture. My point was that Protestants who believe in Sola Scriptura do have teaching authority in their churches. It is not a magesterium who draw from Scripture and Tradition. It is those items you refer to.

In other words it is not just a free for all of everyone can believe what they want (and not be in danger of heretical views) and everyone is their own authority (this is what I meant by “own pope.”). Scripture is given primacy and from it comes all other teachings.

I don’t want this to become Catholic vs Protestant. My intent was to show that Sola Scriptura is not Solo Scriptura. You are free of course to come up with your own intrepretation of Scripture. My only contention was if your vision contradicts your denominations official teacing you may be regarded as a heretic by that denomination. They determine this contradiction by appeal to their official teachings derived from their understanding of Scripture.


15 posted on 02/16/2011 10:42:36 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I want to make it clear that I do not believe that Sola Scriptura equals Be your own pope. That I believe comes from a mistaken understanding of Sola Scriptura.


16 posted on 02/16/2011 10:47:07 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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