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To: Cvengr
Actually, one does not follow from the other.

Let's see this -- we both agree that it is Christ's sacrifice on the cross that grants us salvation. That is Church teaching.

We believe this was sufficient for us salvation and nothing we can do can provide our salvation if Christ's sacrifice did not happen

Yet, we also know that:

  1. Scripture tells us in Eze 33:12-16 that people can lose their salvation
  2. Scripture tells us that we must work out our own salvation
  3. Christ Himself told us "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me" (Mt 16:24)

Keeping this in mind, we see that we must do the minimum of accepting Christ's freely given salvation. If we do not accept this, we do not get saved.

And yet, vines can be pruned and cast away, so we can lose our God-given salvation

And yet pruned vines can also be grafted back in, because we have a forgiving, loving God.

71 posted on 02/28/2011 6:21:15 AM PST by Cronos ("They object to tradition saying that they themselves are wiser than the apostles" - Ire.III.2.2)
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To: Cronos

If we can lose our salvation, then our eternal life is not eternal. Who would then qualify? Not the sinner, because a sinner doesn’t follow the path of God’s Plan, he has missed the target. Is it the sinner who returns to God after having lost his salvation? No, because that would require the perfect sacrifice to be offered again. So if it is possible for anybody to lose salvation, nobody will have it because 1) we are all sinners, and 2) since God knew this from eternity past, and if this is what He really meant, then He has been a liar to man all along, making any promise he has given to not be trustworthy.

So who follows and accepts salvation may be lost? Those who lack faith in Christ and His work on the Cross.


119 posted on 02/28/2011 11:39:31 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cronos
( * Yet, we also know that:

1. Scripture tells us in Eze 33:12-16 that people can lose their salvation * )

Really ? compared to Isaiah chapter where God declares that it is He who will heal the backslider.

The backslider can't heal himself, it is God who will heal them of their wayward ways.

This is before Jesus Christ, this was man keeping the law in the Old Testament.
When we come to Christ, we are imputed with his righteousness, not our own.
So ? is God a Indian giver ?
Will God take back the righteousness that was imputed to us in Christ from us ?
Isaiah chapter 57


14. And it will be said:
" “Build up, build up, prepare the road! "
Remove the obstacles out of the way of my people.”
15. For this is what the high and exalted One says— he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite.
Note/Comments:
( * Blessed are the poor in spirit , for their's is the kingdom of Heaven ( those who don't trust in their own righteiousnes, their own works, their own prideful, man made, self righteiousness, for GOD resist the proud, but, gives Grace to the humble ).
The poor in spirit are those who know they are un-done, who have no merit in of themselves.* )

16. I will not accuse them forever, nor will I always be angry, for then they would faint away because of me— the very people I have created.
17. I was enraged by their sinful greed; I punished them, and hid my face in anger, yet they kept on in their willful ways.
18. I have seen their ways, but I will heal them; I will guide them and restore comfort to Israel’s mourners, 19. creating praise on their lips. Peace, peace, to those far and near,” says the LORD. “And I will heal them.”
20. But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.
21. “There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked.”


129 posted on 02/28/2011 7:43:47 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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