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To: NYer

If you can be saved by works, then what was the point of the crucifixion and resurrection?


12 posted on 03/08/2011 10:41:22 AM PST by SquarePants
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To: SquarePants

EXACTLY!! Christ is sufficient or He’s not. Of course He is. Only God’s sacrifice can pay the penalty of sin. Nothing else.


13 posted on 03/08/2011 10:43:23 AM PST by JLLH
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To: SquarePants; JLLH
If you can be saved by works, then what was the point of the crucifixion and resurrection?

Only God’s sacrifice can pay the penalty of sin. Nothing else.

But Scripture simply doesn't say this. God … will repay each person according to what they have done.” Not what they believe.

Try this – instead of trying to reconcile your “faith alone” belief to Scripture, start with Scripture. Start with James, just for fun. James shows how useless it is to wish someone well without actually helping them, illustrating this by pointing to the cases of Abraham and Rahab. He then forthrightly states: "Do you want to be shown … that faith apart from works is barren?"

“You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:20-26

"Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11–12).

You indeed might just be saved: “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Galatians 1:4

And only IF you remain in his kindness. "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" Rom. 11:22–23

And only IF you endure: Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. (2 Tim. 2:11–12).

And only IF you stand firm: [Jesus said] “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Mark 13:13

And only IF you do what God wants: “God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. (Rom. 2:6–8).

Clearly, what you do is rewarded by God. Like Paul, you must be ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God’s gift of Grace that is working in you.

23 posted on 03/08/2011 11:13:56 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: SquarePants; JLLH
If you can be saved by works, then what was the point of the crucifixion and resurrection?

Wonderful question! The answer begins with an understanding of the meaning of "covenant." Many see Jesus on the Cross and think in juridical terms (condemned by our sins) or even contractual terms (He paid the price), and these are true... but insufficient. He is the sacrificial offering of the New Covenant. Covenant differs from contract as much as marriage differs from prostitution. One is family-making, the other is a business arrangement.

Since our fall in the Garden of Eden, God has been rebuilding His Family... following the same model as our Creation. In the Creation account, He worked by days providing first the form and second the inhabitants. In the first three days, He separated light from dark (day one), separated the waters above and below (day two) and gave us dry land with vegetation (day three). He then filled these realms; sun and moon (day four), birds and fish (day five), and animals and man (day six). He rested on the seventh day not out of fatigue but to mark his creation with a covenant... the number seven is a covenantal number. We broke this covenant through disobedience and so He set out again...

God made His first starting-over covenant with Noah and his family with the seven colors of the rainbow. God then made His family-rebuilding covenant with Abraham in the form of a three-fold promise... the land, a nation and all men blessed through him. God affirmed His covenant with Isaac (because Abraham had another son, Ishmael). God confirmed His covenant again with Jacob (because Isaac thought to pass his blessing through Esau). In these promises, the unbroken bloodline matters in fulfilling God's promise, but it is God, not the Earthly succession Who confirmed the line His promise would follow. God then began to fulfill these promises... the land through Moses on Sinai, the royal dynasty of David, and all people through Christ on the Cross. Seven covenants just like the seven days of creation.

In each successive covenant, God is growing his family... from the family of Noah to the tribe of Jacob to the Nation under David and then all nations under Christ. What was Christ doing on the Cross? He was the sacrificial offering of the New Covenant where man could be rejoined to God's family. Just as the neighbor kids can't become part of my family on their own--I have to adopt them--so we couldn't make ourselves part of God's family. The New Covenant is a return to our participation in the family life of God!

Just as we don't delight in the accomplishments of the neighbor kids, so God did not delight in our vain offerings before our redemption. Now, through Christ, God does delight and reward our efforts. In so many places in the New Testament we find that God will reward us for our deeds. That is because Christ has merited for us the ability to merit from God.

Christ on the Cross was at once Priest offering a sacrifice, the sacrificial Lamb of the New Covenant, and the Bridegroom to His Church. Now, in order to be part of His Family, we are commanded to 'believe.' However, believe is an action word. It doesn't mean that we have an intellectual understanding... just as my kids understand that school is important for them--but it doesn't do them any good until they actually go to school and participate. If we BELIEVE that Jesus is Christ, then we are to DO the Will of His Father... which begins our life in God's Family through baptism in His Name.

Christ on the Cross isn't the end from which there is no more to be done, it is the beginning from which all else is possible.

44 posted on 03/08/2011 11:55:07 AM PST by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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