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To: Mr Rogers
The problem with systematic theology is that it injects human ideas and wisdom into areas God has not expressly revealed.

Congratulations! In your post you are practicing systematic theology!

It teaches we must respond in faith, and if we do so truly, we are born again - a new creation.

Actually, it teaches we are born again, then we respond in faith. Grace proceeds faith.

When you say, Scripture clearly teaches that we can do nothing to save ourselves. You are 100% right. Grace proceeds faith. We add nothing to salvation but our sin.

6 posted on 03/12/2011 7:15:42 AM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Gamecock; Mr Rogers; BenKenobi
"Congratulations! In your post you are practicing systematic theology!"

Excellent observation, Gamecock! Ben, this entire thread is a good read. It highlights a number of places where Rome wandered off the path of the Book they claim to have given the world.

7 posted on 03/12/2011 7:22:53 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Gamecock

“Actually, it teaches we are born again, then we respond in faith. Grace proceeds faith.”

Not what scripture says.

“...these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

There is no scripture saying life is given before we respond in faith. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God...”

It doesn’t say we are given life so we can believe, but that by believing we may have life.

Grace precedes faith because we would have nothing to respond to if God hadn’t reached out to us. His grace, and his plan of salvation makes life possible, but we receive a new life by believing. “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life...”, not, “Whoever I give eternal life to will believe....”

This is an explicit teaching found in scripture. Faith is the word that describes what we have when we believe the promises of God.


15 posted on 03/12/2011 10:17:06 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Gamecock
Actually, it *Scripture) teaches we are born again, then we respond in faith. Grace proceeds faith.

AMEN! Or else we would have reason to boast.

And we don't. Grace is free, unearned and accomplishes all God ordains.

34 posted on 03/12/2011 12:42:05 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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