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To: xone
current non-believers and that only God knows the difference

To me judging, (AKA the log in my eye), is when I think I am better than someone else. Here is a truth, we are all the same. We are all poor miserable sinners in need of a savior. Pharisees and sons of the devil do exist and they are known by their fruit. They think they are better than someone else, they are self righteous, they are weeds they live to control others. Only when the log is taken out of our eye through God's grace can we see to take the speck out of our brothers eye.

The key is to love everyone as they are and not try to control or change them. The only one we can have a bit of influence in changing is ourselves. The Holy Spirit is responsible for everyone else. Loving others means our desire for everyone is to grow in faith in The Lord Jesus Christ.

Now observed actions and behavior are facts not judging. The best construction is always put on actions and behavior.

Rules and standards and constitutions are important.

One problem is the DP lorded over P#4. This was pointed out using Matthew 18 in a private discussion of the proper roles of the Pastor as pointed out in the book of Concord, our church constitution and synod procedure. I was there to witness the discussion between P#4 and DP. The DP was lost and had no response.

Using LCMS rules, what is the proper role for a DP in a conflict between a Pastor and a group of church members?

938 posted on 06/17/2011 5:43:31 PM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren
To me judging, (AKA the log in my eye), is when I think I am better than someone else.

Not so, there are many manifest behaviors that are manifestly wrong. To point that out isn't judging by your own set of values, but using God's Word. In effect you aren't judging someone's action in this case you are pointing out that God already has.

The key is to love everyone as they are and not try to control or change them.

Why have the Law if we are not to change? The Law convicts us and shows our need for a Savior.

Now observed actions and behavior are facts not judging. The best construction is always put on actions and behavior.

And yet, here we are. You aren't judging 'fact', you are judging outcomes and intents. To imply you aren't means there can be NO possible reason for any action you observed, other than the ones to which you have attached some sort of malice.

One problem is the DP lorded over P#4. This was pointed out using Matthew 18 in a private discussion of the proper roles of the Pastor as pointed out in the book of Concord, our church constitution and synod procedure. I was there to witness the discussion between P#4 and DP. The DP was lost and had no response.

Example please of the 'lording it over'. Did the DP have no one with him? After this occured then what did you do? Did you involve the Circuit Counselor? Did you go to the Synod?

Using LCMS rules, what is the proper role for a DP in a conflict between a Pastor and a group of church members?

Again with the rules. The DP should moderate the situation and try to bring it to an amicable conclusion. Not always possible. Apparently he failed at this so he is a bad guy for not backing the pastor? The pastor isn't always right, even though you think in this case he is. The DP has a broader responsibility and the two church solution is probably it in a case of irreconcilable differences. Though with the lack of information it is hard to make a case either way.

939 posted on 06/17/2011 6:28:33 PM PDT by xone
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