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To: fishtank
Amen! Sproul's fallacious interpretation of Revelation is nothing short of ridiculous. To say the prophecy of the book was fulfilled in AD 70 with the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple is laughable, especially since the book of Revelation was written over 20 years AFTER the events of AD 70 had taken place. Another problem with Sprouls errant interpretation is the description and extent of many of the judgments listed in Revelation:

There has never been a time in all of human history when hail and fire, mixed with blood has been thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. (Rev 8:7)

There has never been a time in all of human history when something like a great mountain burning with fire has been thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood, and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed. (Rev. 8:8)

There has never been a time in human history when a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters... and a third of the waters became wormwood (poisonous), and many men died from the waters. (Rev. 8:9-10)

There has never been a time in all of human history when a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way. (Rev. 8:12)

There has never been a time in human history when the bottomless pit (the holding place of demons) was opened, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit.

Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them. (Rev. 9:2-6)

There has never been a time in human history when the Euphrates river dried up to permit a 200 MILLION man army to cross it and kill "a THRID OF MANKIND"! (Rev. 9:13-19, 16:12)

There has never been a time when the second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and the entire sea became blood like that of a dead man; and EVERY LIVING THING in the sea died. (Rev. 16:3)

There has never been a time in human history when every spring and river on earth was turned to blood because the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they all became blood. (Rev. 16:4)

There has never been a universal devastating earthquake that is so severe that all of the islands of the earth and every mountain on earth disappeared (Rev. 16:20a)

There has never been a universal hailstorm over the entire earth in which every hail stone weighs between 80 and 100 pounds! (Rev. 16:21)

Sproul and the other Reformed naysayers can denigrate those who believe in the future literal fulfillment of the book of Revelation and the Rapture of the church all they want, they can "spiritualize" and "allegorize" the prophecies of the book of Revelation all they like but they can show no time in human history when ANY of the plagues listed in Revelation were literally fulfilled in AD 70 or any other time in human history. The only way they can make their argument is to deny, spiritualize or allegorize what God Himself has clearly said will take place.

100% of the prophecies concerning the first advent of Christ were LITERALLY, not "spiritually" fulfilled at His first coming. I believe that all of the prophecies and plagues listed in the Word of God regarding Christ's Second Advent will also LITERALLY come to pass 100% as well.

8 posted on 05/24/2011 11:54:48 AM PDT by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Jmouse007

Amen...


10 posted on 05/24/2011 12:23:51 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Jmouse007

Jmouse007 says that Sproul’s interpretation of Revelation is ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is Jmouse007’s ignorance about how to interpret the Bible. Let us take with caution anyone who says that the Bible, especially apololyptic literature, should be taken literally.

Dispensationalists say that they interpret it literally, but let’s see. When Jesus said that he is the vine (John 15:5) did he meant that he is a woody plant? Should we literally hate our mother and father to be Jesus’ disciples (Luke 14:26)? If your eye causes you to sin, should you pluck it out (Mark 9:47)? Must we sell everything we have an give it to the poor to inherit eternal life (Luke 18:18-22)? Did the mountains and the hills really break into song and the trees clap their hands (Isaiah 55:12)? Did God hold out his hands literally to an obstinate people (Isaiah 65)? Does God have hands?

Would the moon literally turn to blood before the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31)? Aren’t such statements about actual worldly judgments by God that are expressed in poetic or astonomical language rather than literal language? When God judged Babylon, an event in actual history, did the stars and sun stop giving their light (Isaiah 13:10) and the heavens tremble (Isaiah 13:13)? Given this last passage and numerous others like it in the Bible (for example, Is 24:23, Ez 32:7, Amos 5:20, 8:9, Zeph 1:15) can’t we see that the language of Revelation is of the same type as other events in covenantal history that have already been fulfilled?

In Revelation 1:4, did Jesus literally have eyes like a flame of fire? Did he literally hold seven stars (v. 16)? Did the Beasts of Rev 19 literally eat the flesh of kings and all men (v. 18)? Did the angel in Rev 20:1 have a literal key to the literall bottomless pit? The Book of lIfe in Rev 20:12, 15 literal—with paper or parchment pages?

Concerning the dating of Revelation, the 95 AD date is taken from a single statement from a single early church father that can be interpreted different ways. The fact is that many theologians are convinced that the book was written prior to 70 AD as the book nowhere mentions the destruction of Jerusalem in the past tense and is suggested in Rev 11 that in fact it was still standing when the book was written.

Here are a couple of links:

www.faithfacts.org/bible-101/interpreting-the-bible

www.prophecyquestions.wordpress.com


12 posted on 05/24/2011 1:17:11 PM PDT by grumpa (VP)
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To: Jmouse007
It has always seemed to me that postmillenialism is just amillenialism that has yet to converge to its asymptotic limit.
13 posted on 05/24/2011 2:03:13 PM PDT by dartuser ("Dealing with preterists is like cleaning the litter box ... but at least none of the cats are big.")
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To: Jmouse007

Agreed. Preterism is ridiculous.

You probably already know all this but here are a few more resources debunking Preterism and partial Preterism:

Not long ago at the Pre-Trib Study Group conference in Dallas, TX, futurist Dr. Mark Hitchcock clearly and decisively won the debate against partial Preterist (though he refuses to call himself that) Hank Hanegraaff.

Soon after, Dr. Hitchcock spoke at another conference, discussing material presented at the debate.

An mp3 audio of that presentation is available free online, as is a video version. At the following link, scroll down the page to:

Dr. Mark Hitchcock - A.D. 95 - Defending the Traditional Date of Revelation

http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files%2FWHBC+Guest+Speakers+and+Conferences%2FChafer+Theological+Seminary+Pastors+Conferences%2F2008+-+Chafer+Theological+Seminary+Pastors+Conf

In addition, some helpful articles:

A Case for the Futurist Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
by Dr. Andy Woods
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Woods-ACasefortheFuturistI.pdf

A Futurist Response to the Preterist Interpretation of Babylon in Revelation 17-18
by Dr. Andy Woods
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Woods-AFuturistResponsetot.pdf

Preterism
by Dr. Randall Price
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/price/15rp.pdf

Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled?
by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-HasBibleProphecyAlrea.pdf

Gary Demar’s End Times Fiction
by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-GaryDemarsEndTimesFic.pdf

A Review of Hank Hanegraaff’s The Apocalypse Code
by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-AReviewofHankHanegra.pdf

An Assessment of Kenneth L. Gentry’s Internal Evidence for Dating Revelation
by Dr. Robert Thomas
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Thomas-AnAssessmentofKennet.pdf

Preterism and Zechariah 12-14
by Dr. Thomas Ice
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-PreterismandZechariah.pdf

Josephus and the Fall of Jerusalem: An Evaluation of the Preterist View on Jerusalem in Prophecy
by Dr. Wayne House
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/House-JosephusandtheFallof.pdf


17 posted on 05/24/2011 3:17:05 PM PDT by onthelookout777
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To: Jmouse007

Concur


42 posted on 05/26/2011 5:13:42 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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