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To: Colofornian
Hey, here's a link to some good news on the Sharia front...

http://bigpeace.com/abostom/2011/05/29/first-amendment-trumps-sharia-in-dearborn/

I refuse to address the obvious error that is the whole book of Mormon. Error is serious, but I contend not fatal. I happen to view Catholicism in the same way with the persistent assertions to the divinity of Mary, in clear contradiction to the first two commandments and the doctrine of the trinity. But most Catholics are Christians to me.

I have asked many Mormons, "Whence cometh your salvation?" and their answers generally follow both the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds. Whatever the Mormons have tacked on is error, but as far as I have observed, not a fatal error. Therefore I regard them, for the most part, because there must be exceptions, as Christians.

Now, to deny the resurrection is to deny the grace you mention. To deny that we rec' it individually is to deny that grace, also. And the behavior of the TEC in the past ten years is dangerous, and probably fatal, folly.

I'm often quite impressed at the family lives of the Mormons I have known, and the good works that are the outer sign of an inward blessing. But the recent works of the TEC are a stench and a defoulment.

31 posted on 05/29/2011 7:20:51 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
I have asked many Mormons, "Whence cometh your salvation?" and their answers generally follow both the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds.

Well, why don't you then try asking them this question: "I have your sacred book in front of me. The Pearl of Great Price. Do you believe these verses in this book -- like these verses, 18 & 19 of Joseph Smith - History? ...I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their CREEDS were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all ccorrupt...

Certainly Mormon doctrine isn't far from the Apostles Creed; but if you think Mormons believe the Nicene Creed, then they've been "off-Salt Lake City" (as in off-Broadway)...

...fatal...

This is the second time you've used this word.

Spiritual fatalies can result from...
Embracing legalism...
Embracing a counterfeit Jesus...
Embracing a counterfeit god...
Believing you can become a god (as do temple Mormons)...
Etc.

Let's deal with legalism for a moment.

According to Mormon writings, what makes you "worthy?" Your perfection (3 Nephi 12:48; Mt. 5:48)

[Whereas, in contrast, a good definition of a "Christian" is someone already perfect in the Father's eyes thru Jesus sacrificial death (Heb. 10:14) -- where His perfect righteousness is substituted for our imperfect righteousness. (1 Cor. 1:30). Heb. 10:14 ...because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.]

Just to be sure, I looked up "worthiness" (a key Lds concept) in the 1977 "Topical Guide to the Scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" published by church-owned Deseret Publishers.

I found verses like Doctrine & Covenants 59:4: "And they shall also be crowned with blessings from above, yea, and with commandments not a few, and with revelations in their time--they that are faithful and diligent before me."

"Commandments not a few"? -- sounds like a long checklist to me.

I then looked at the 1979 "Topical Guide" in the Lds version of its KJV -- and turned to the "worthiness" entry there: It tells me right up top its related to the concept of "qualifying for" & then proceeds to verses like D&C 31:5: "Therefore, thrust in your sickle with all your soul, and your sins are forgiven you, and you shall be laden with sheaves upon your back, for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Wherefore, your family shall live."

Ah. There it is: The Mormon "strategy." Don't "trust" for your salvation, "thrust in your sickle"

So it sounds like the Mormon god wants plenty of soul labor -- paid labor -- spiritual hirelings -- earned labor for salvation. No free gifts here. No grace here. Just follow the rules, ma'am.

Indeed, the LDS are the "rules oriented" ones: The purity and perfection we seek is unattainable without this subjection of unworthy, ungodlike urges and the corresponding encouragement of their opposites. We certainly cannot expect the rules to be easier for us than for the Son of God... (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 28)

Just look @ all the "rule extensions" Lds have imposed upon their followers in order to make it to the highest degree of afterlife:
(1) You have to be obedient to all the commandments & ordinances of the Mormon god
(2) You have to tithe -- what Lds reference as the "Law of consecration"
(3) You have to obey the "Word of Wisdom" -- not drink coffee, etc.
(4) You have to get married -- sorry, no never-married single people allowed
(5) You have to have as many children as possible
(6) You have to perform temple work for the dead
(7) You have to perform endowments essential for this highest degree of salvation
(8) You have to be a member of the right church (Lds)
(9) You have to receive & perform the rites and ordinances established by that church
(10)You have to have Joseph Smith's consent to enter into your highest afterlife

That is 19th-20th-21st century legalism!

The campaign says God's truth is "the concept of free and full forgiveness through Christ" rather than the "earned forgiveness taught in Mormonism."

32 posted on 05/29/2011 7:35:53 PM PDT by Colofornian (Key Q for Romney & Huntsman: Show us your spirit-birth certificate from Kolob)
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To: Mamzelle
Error is serious, but I contend not fatal.

Why not?

43 posted on 05/29/2011 9:09:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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