Posted on 06/12/2011 10:10:18 AM PDT by Colofornian
However; it is REAL easy to show what MORMONism, Inc. has PUBLISHED; and we do this quite frequently here on FR.
(It is interesting to see MORMONs then attempt to 'prove' that what is in evidence is NOT to be believed, but some OTHER claim with NO evidence.)
FACTS against his (or her) religion are QUITE welcome; however.
FACTS against his (or her) religion are QUITE welcome; however.
There are many Mormon’s who consider themselves Christian. They are, of course, far from the truth of Christ, the living and only God. They are stuck with a cosmology based on reincarnation. Once they deny this and establish the Bible as the supreme book of faith they will be considered Christian. Until then, not so much.
If there is ANYthing I hate; it's being NAKED!!!
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
Some have crossed over into the Light.
Huh?
A person's most deeply held beliefs would NOT affect his OTHER characteristics?
What good are they then??
I’ll bump your post in agreement and give a nod to the accurate keywords posted for this thread...
yup
Various religions can duke it out all they want on theological grounds, but when it comes to American elections, religious bigotry has no place. Period. Everything you posted is about theological arguments, not Constitutional ones.
“Mormoaner” cracked me up.
Freegards
Its Romney’s political liberalism that is the major issue with most conservatives.
Mormon liberalism and its cultist nature doesn’t help, however.
Thanks :)
/mitt-got-tree/
–noun, plural -ries.
1. typically Willard Romney supporters who share a stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that allows for personal decisions to be guided by the conscience of the adherent.2. the irrational belief that voters must only consider the stated positions of a candidate, instead of the totality of the candidate's character, opinions, beliefs and actions.
3. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a mittgot, including whining and name-calling.
4. the condition caused by wearing tight underwear, in the belief it gives one the superiority to judge the beliefs, convictions and practices of others.
What I get a kick out of when folks like you start talking about the “religious test” and bigotry is that you want to confuse things. No one is calling for a constitutional test, you will rarely if ever see such sentiment here. Nor will you see any advocating for locking up peaceful followers of any faith or barricading entrance to the houses of worship.
HOWEVER because of both the freedom of speech as well as the freedom of religion we are allowed to SAY whatever and question whatever we wish about a religion as long as we don't do anything to impede its legal practice by its adherents. It is not bigotry to do such.
It is also NOT bigotry to question the judgment of a person based on personal choices including what they may believe when VOTING them into a position.
If we say “Those Mormons can't be on the ballot” that is using bigotry and impeding the individuals freedom of religion. However if we say we have issues with a Mormon (who by law is allowed to be on the ballot because there is NO religious test)being is this position for X reason and here is why, that is us expressing our position and we are allowed to do such by the very Constitution you desire to invoke in making you rather incorrect point.
Is that itself bigotry, perhaps in a way, but it is also a right, a right we have to determine who we put in positions of power over us. We are not simply talking about hiring a truck driver or a nurse or some other such position where beliefs could have little impact.
As with many, your application of the 'religious test' is flawed and ignorant. The religious test has to do with LAWS forbidding officeholders from being of specific religious beliefs. There is absolutely NOTHING in the constitution that relates to it being forbidden of individuals to use a person's religious beliefs as a CRITERION for their suitability for office.
BTW wolf - muttbots in other arenas are making religion an issue in support of mutt. In that case, evaluation of his religious beliefs are more than justified by people.
“What good are they then??”
In the case of Romney, as I see him, ...nothing. That’s part of my point. Do you have a different one??????????????????... (?)
Your constitutional ignorance slip is showing.
First of all, Article VI isn't addressed to voters; voters don't qualify who gets to be -- or who doesn't get to be -- on a given ballot.
Guess who produces ballots Wolfstar? (That's right; if you're able to somehow figure that out--it's the govt!)
So. Let's provide you, Wolfstar with some remedial education you failed to get elsewhere:
Point 1- RELIGION: Religion IS NOT a qualification or disqualification for public office; but it's certainly one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc.
Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution is aimed at the candidate (must be of a certain age and must have resided in our country for a certain number of years)...
...And the government...
... so that religion does not become a disqualification to keep somebody otherwise eligible for running for public office. Article VI, section 3, is not aimed at the voter. Otherwise, voters would have to 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates.
POINT 2 - ELIGIBILITY: [Newsflash!! Every person on the ballot, & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds). Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!
POINT 3- BOTTOM LINE: You confuse "qualifications" (language within the Constitution) with "qualities." (language that’s NOT in the Constitution). I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities
Article VI says absolutely nothing...nada...zero...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities" of a candidate...So, nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!
"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.
Note the above before you continue to export your ignorance, Wolfstar.
If your argument was on constitutional grounds, why play the "bigot" card?
Your first sentence was, "Bigotry against any political candidate based on his religion has no place in our Constitutional Republic".
Everything I posted was in response to your nasty accusations of bigotry...and I see you have no reply to the examples of mormon bigotry in my comment.
Mormons are practicing anti-Christian bigotry every day of the year with their missionary program. Deal with it.
Please read posts 3, 4, 5.
What most people don't get is they tend to judge Mormonism by the average Mormon they know. If you'd been around in 1840s Nauvoo, IL -- judging Mormonism by the average Mormon you knew back then...that, too, would have been a mistake...because shortly before Joseph Smith died, he moved into emphasizing multiple gods and becoming a god yourself. That was a change.
If you would have known Mormons in the 1830s...saying, "Gee I knew Mormon XYZ and he didn't think of himself as a god..." that's where you make the mistake of judging a dominion-based religion -- or at least potentially so depending on what Lds "prophet" is at the helm...with your average Mormon.
Sorry...as Damon Linker says in this article: Your average ward Mormons tend to be quite deferential to your political and religious authorities. Some Lds "prophets" on other hand, have a track record for dominionism.
And when it comes to POTUS, that's where it matters. Because he could be the "prophet's" puppet.
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