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Female pastors on the rise in progressive Baptist bodies
Chron.com ^ | June 2011 | Kate Shellnut

Posted on 06/24/2011 12:44:39 AM PDT by Cronos

The number of female pastors in Baptist churches has grown by a third in the past five years, according to a recent report covered in the Associated Baptist Press.

Baptist Women in Ministry found that women’s involvement in ordained ministry is slowly growing among organizations like the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and the Baptist General Convention of Texas. The Southern Baptist Convention’s position is that Scripture forbids women from serving as pastors.

(Excerpt) Read more at blog.chron.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian
KEYWORDS: 1timothy2; baptist; liberalprotestantism; liberalprotestants; opc; pastoresses

1 posted on 06/24/2011 12:44:48 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos; WKB

Rogue Baptists.

I wonder how they feel about casseroles?


2 posted on 06/24/2011 12:54:10 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Age, skill, wisdom, and a little treachery will always overcome youth and arrogance!)
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To: dixiechick2000; WKB

I personally prefer steak and kidney pie :) More crunch!


3 posted on 06/24/2011 1:35:17 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

They have actually ceased to be “Baptist” by historic definition, distinctive, and heritage.


4 posted on 06/24/2011 2:54:19 AM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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To: John Leland 1789
I don't know enough to comment on whether they are or are not Baptist by historic definition, distinctive, and heritage.

If you could explain why, that would be valuable knowledge, thank you

5 posted on 06/24/2011 3:01:21 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
The number of female pastors in Baptist churches has grown by a third in the past five years

They should look at the PCUSA and Episcopal denomination and what happened after they did this.

Once I visited the Presbyterian USA church men's group that was being led by a woman who exhorted us to get in touch with our 'feminen' side.

This reminded me of the Apostle Paul's admonition: "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." 1 Timothy 2:12

Funny how when the Scriptures are not viewed as Inerrant and Authoritative how easily they are ignored resulting in peril.

6 posted on 06/24/2011 4:40:46 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: sr4402
"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

no comments -- just that there are plenty like

Some have had good points of teaching. But on the other hand, I fully agree with you that letting this happen is the first step on the slippery slope

7 posted on 06/24/2011 4:47:15 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: All
I found another pastoress who seems to be non-botoxed, yet

Pastor Melissa Scott!


8 posted on 06/24/2011 5:02:02 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Aimee Semple Mcpherson was born in the same home town as my mom. She was not well regarded there...


9 posted on 06/24/2011 5:06:44 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Cronos

And See What We do to Denominations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbZcQa7fME8&feature=player_detailpage

10 posted on 06/24/2011 5:55:32 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: dixiechick2000
Interesting questions.

I find in the Bible that there are things explicitly said, direct statements about something, they can stand alone doctrinally.

Then there are things implied, which need wider reference to establish doctrine from.

Also there are things that report what someone said or did, but don't necessarily imply approval either for the original instance or as a general principle for practice.

Finally there are those things that are "merely" mentioned, which provide tenuous basis for any doctrine.

The doctrinal basis for women in leadership roles, at least the reasoning I've been exposed to, seems to mostly rely upon the last three categories.

The first category, direct statements, run counter to these ideas.

Another thing I've noticed is that the idea of cultural relativity (even if it's not philosophically correct to call it that nowadays - but that's what it still is) is dragooned into service to eliminate objections based on direct statements that are contrary to the issues.

11 posted on 06/24/2011 6:00:24 AM PDT by hfr ("Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD;" Psalms 33:12)
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To: Cronos

Chalk this up as a nother article today under the headline of “Churches Not Slipping Away Fast Enough”.


12 posted on 06/24/2011 10:46:58 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Cronos

Historic Baptist position is sole reliance on the Scriptures for all matters of faith, practice, life, death, rewards, judgment, warfare, peace, wealth, poverty, work ethic, laziness, family, child rearing, and everything else.

Since a woman can not be the husband of one (or any number of) wife, and since the Scriptural principal of headship in the home precludes a woman from “ruling [her]own house,” (the fact that many do try to rule their house not withstanding) there is no way a female can be in the bishop’s office and also be in obedience to the Scriptures.

Baptists do not accept the office of bishop as a supra-church position, but as a position within only one local church.


13 posted on 07/03/2011 12:49:14 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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To: sr4402
"They should look at the PCUSA and Episcopal denomination and what happened after they did this."

The difference is that Baptist churches are each autonomous and independent. These women pastors are not pushed on any local church by a denominational structure. Local Baptist churches select their own pastors, so this is a local church problem.

There is no Baptist denominational structure that ordains ministers; rather each local church calls for the ordination of its ministers, and votes up or down according to the recommendation of an ordination council invited by the local congregation to sit as a council.

Any Baptist congregation can elect to/not to fellowship with or cooperate with any other local congregation for any reason it considers proper. Therefore, no congregation is required to fellowship/cooperate with a congregation that has a female "pastor."

If a state convention or the national convention elects to seat messengers from churches which have female pastors, a Bible-believing church can just decline to send messengers, using its autonomy. The church deciding not to send messengers can also withhold financial support from the state and/or national organization(s).

And through it all, the local Bible-believing Baptist church is still a Baptist church.

Thousands of denominationally-connected Baptist churches, especially from 1945 to to 1970, ceased supporting denominational programs (Southern Baptist; American Baptist; others) and began supporting missionary projects on an individual basis.

After WWII, many Baptist missionary clearing houses sprung up around the USA for missionary activity outside of the denominational structures.

Better yet, especially from 1980, very many local Baptist churches themselves began to function as the clearing houses of missionary families sent from those churches, and from sister churches in close fellowship and cooperation.

Some of the very best pastor and missionary training schools today are operated by single independent Baptist churches, where the "President" or "Chancellor" of the school is the local church pastor himself.

So, rather than Baptists looking at what happened to Presbyterian and Episcopal denominations---that is, the consequences of making women pastors and deacons, . . . .

. . . . . the denominations should look to many Baptists who still maintain the distinctive of local church autonomy; and establish more independent Presbyterian churches and independent Episcopal congregations.

14 posted on 07/03/2011 1:21:23 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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To: Cronos

It’s sad to see this happening.


15 posted on 07/03/2011 1:28:45 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: John Leland 1789; sr4402

That’s not quite correct — all should learn from the mistakes of the PCUSA and ECUSA for getting pastoresses and then lesbian pastoresses. The SBC should learn from this and not allow this to happen, or it will go down the same route. passing the buck by saying the presbyterians should follow the baptist method is neither here not there


16 posted on 07/03/2011 3:59:20 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: John Leland 1789
Thanks for that, so then explicitly a Baptist church cannot have a pastoress or bishopess, right?

and Baptists do not accept the office of bishop as a supra-church position, but as a position within only one local church. -- what would then be the difference between a Baptist pastor and a Baptist bishop?

17 posted on 07/04/2011 6:12:37 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
The gal pictured at the bottom is one Aimee Semple McPherson

Worth a read.

18 posted on 07/04/2011 6:23:12 AM PDT by Gamecock (It's not eat drink and be merry because tommow we die, but rather because yesterday we were dead.)
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To: Gamecock

could be, but Pastor Scott is hot! it would be more interesting to read about her :)


19 posted on 07/04/2011 6:54:45 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
" . . . so then explicitly a Baptist church cannot have a pastoress or bishopess, right?"

A single/individual "Baptist" church can elect a female and install her into any office it wants to, but this does not define anything "Baptist," for sure.

The Baptist church of which I am a member would never fellowship with or cooperate with such a church. A church that would so ignore Scriptural qualifications and install a female as "pastor" has plenty more doctrinal problems; having a female pastor would be but a symptom of much deeper corruption.

Actually, the word, bishop is a proper biblical term, we believe, for what most of our churches call "the pastor," or the presiding elder, if you will, of the local assembly.

It is characteristic of Baptist churches not to use the title "Bishop" for their pastor because it is felt that the unlearned might confuse it with the sense so often used in churches employing an episcopal form of government. Baptists usually claim to use a congregational form of government (I exclude myself from the congregational form).

Many Baptists these days are also shy to use the word elder for fear that some would take it in a presbyterian or Mormon sense, governmentally. This is a little odd, though, because up to 1900 or so, Baptist ministers were typically called "Elder Smith," "Elder Jones," etc. Signs in front of Baptist churches often said something like, "Elder Jedediah Hitchcock, Pastor" (there was such a man).

John Leland was a Baptist bishop/pastor of a local church in Virginia in the 18th century, and he was known as "Elder John Leland."

Today, very many Baptist churches indeed have multiple elders (multiple ordained ministers), but it is now typical to hear them called, "Assistant Pastor," or "Associate Pastor," or "Pastor of Evangelism," or "Youth Pastor," or "Seniors Pastor."

It is not necessary, in my view, to dance all around the terms bishop and elder without using them the way Baptists did 200 years ago and even more recently.

20 posted on 07/04/2011 1:43:37 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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To: sr4402
Good old Martin Luther has just caused all kinds of trouble.

Lesbian Bishops kind of makes the sale of indulgences look tame by comparison.

21 posted on 07/04/2011 1:46:50 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: John Leland 1789

National Council of Churches logo represents the church as ecumenical ship, serving the world

2000 NCC News Archives

Statement Of NCC General Secretary Regarding Return Of Elian Gonzalez To His Father

The National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA sent a mission to Cuba at the invitation of the Cuba Council of Churches to discover ways to return Elian Gonzalez to his father and family in Cuba. On the trip, representing the NCC, are The Rev. Dr. Joan Brown Campbell, who retired as General Secretary on Dec. 31, 1999, and The Rev. Oscar Bolioli, Director of the Latin America and Caribbean Office. Ms. Carol Fouke, News Director for the NCC, is the media officer for the trip which began on Sunday, January 2, 2000. The mission was undertaken with the full knowledge of the U.S. Government.

January 4, 2000, Havana,Cuba

Rev. Dr. Joan Brown Campbell, former General Secretary of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA, representing the NCC in an effort to reunite Elian Gonzalez with his father in Cuba.

We believe Elian Gonzalez should immediately be reunited with his father in Cuba. The value of that kind of family life is vitally important to his well-being, as is being raised in a loving family, is crucial for any child.

We visited for some time with the family in Cardenas and any child would be lucky to have a family that is this loving and caring. There is a full set of grandparents, a great grandmother, uncles and aunts. Elian’s father lives in a very modest, but very immaculately and well taken care of, home with Elian’s own room and his toys there waiting for him.

Our visit was very emotional. The father and the rest of the family are very sad. There is some anger since they don’t understand why no one will tell them when their son, this little six year-old boy, will be returned. They feel very strongly that everyone should know that this is where they believe the boy should be. They are distressed about rumors that the father is happy that the boy is in Miami. This isn’t true. They want Elian to be at home with them. They are a very strong Cuban family and they want to bring him back into the fold of his close family.

We saw his school and his schoolmates look very, very tiny. They reminded us of how little a boy he is. The students talked about how he had missed his lessons and that he was going to be behind in his math, just like kids always do. They were especially concerned that he had missed his tetanus shot and his class was very concerned about how he was going to catch up with his work.

Juan Miguel Gonzalez expressed real concern that as Elian starts school in Miami, he will have to learn in English and that is not the father’s wish. As he said, “I should be in charge of my child’s education, where he goes to school, and what kind of schooling he receives.”

The fact is this is such a strong family values argument for the well-being of the boy. This is a very connected and sharing family. They live very close to each other and are a part of each other’s lives.

Particularly poignant for me was when I met the mother of Elian’s mother. She lost her daughter at sea and now she says, “Elian is all I have left.” None of them knew that the mother was leaving with Elian. They were all shocked and surprised that she left. And there’s a bit more to this story than first appears to be there. The mother had fallen in love with a man whose business was taking people from Cuba to the United States. And they had packed a boat designed for six with fourteen people. So I think there is a lot more to the story than has first been reported.

The mother’s mother wants him back with his father. And for me, that tells you everything. When the mother of the mother wants her former son-in-law to raise this child, that tells you a lot about both the family relationships and the respect for this young man as a father. The great grandmother was very teary and during our visit the family kept asking her if she was tired. And she said, “No, not for Elian.”

There’s nothing programmed about this. This is just a simple family coming together in a time of trouble. You can feel that. It’s hard to communicate it because it sounds too rote. But it’s very real. I couldn’t see any governmental influence in what was said. In fact, it would be impossible to get such a diverse and large group to speak and act in such a natural and touching way.

I would feel very good about advocating that Elian Gonzalez come back to his father and family in Cuba. I have no qualms about that.

(The NCC mission to Cuba participants are meeting on Tuesday with Vicki Huddleston, Principal Officer U.S. Interests Section in Havana, with Ricardo Alarcon, President of the Popular Assembly, and with religious leaders in Cuba. They return to the U.S. on Wednesday, January 5.)

-end-

Contact: NCC News


22 posted on 07/04/2011 1:51:04 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: sr4402

NC Council of Churches installs homosexual leader
By
gcmwatch
– January 11, 2011Posted in: African American, black church, denominations, diapraxy, gay churches, gay clerics, GCMW Exclusive, Headline, homosexuality, Unity Fellowships
NC Council of Churches installs homosexual leader

Apostasy and collusion with apostates continue to dismantle the already morally bankrupt American church system. The North Carolina Council of Churches, an aggregation of various denominations which advocate mostly liberal social causes, has elected a homosexual cleric as the leader of the organization according to news reports.

Among the members of the NCCC is are three historic and predominately African American denominations, the African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME), the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (CME), and the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church (AMEZ).

The national headquarters of the National Council of Churches has been attempting for years to admit MCC, a Los Angeles based homosexual christian denomination but has been unsuccessful. Instead, they have incorporated clerics of the MCC which have had a devastating effect of the organization’s biblical views.

The council selected 55-year-old Stan Kimer(left), a lay leader in the Metropolitan Community Churches — a denomination that ministers to homosexual men and women.

The council’s executive director, the Rev. George Reed, says this is the first time a southern state church council has been led by an openly homosexual person.

The state branch of the Southern Baptist Convention does not belong to the North Carolina Council of churches, but North Carolina’s Roman Catholic dioceses are members. The council promotes left-leaning legislative goals on policies including immigration, guns, and the death penalty. Kimer, a retired IBM sales executive, says he wants young people more involved in inter-church activism.

A Christian renewal group says by electing an open homosexual to be its leader, an alliance of North Carolina churches has undermined its own purpose.

The North Carolina Council of Churches has chosen an open homosexual as its president-elect. He is 55-year-old Stan Kimer, a lay leader in the Metropolitan Community Church, which consists largely of homosexuals and lesbians.

According to its website, the purpose of the ecumenical organization is to promote “Christian unity.” But the vote in favor of Kimer, says Alan Wisdom of the Washington, DC-based Institute on Religion & Democracy, accomplishes just the opposite.

“All major branches of the Christian church — the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the evangelicals, the African-Americans, the historic Protestant denominations for the most part — agree that God’s standard of sexual morality is the marriage of man and woman and that homosexual relationships are not in accord with Christian teaching,” he explains.

Yet the Metropolitan Community Church with which Kimer is affiliated affirms homosexuality.

According to Wisdom, the Council has often pushed agendas not held in common by Christians. “It has pushed liberal positions on issues like immigration and the death penalty where there is not consensus among Christians,” he says, “but this is a further step in that same direction.”

GCM Watch contacted officials with the AME, CME and AMEZ denominations but none have responded as of publication. The story will be updated if that information becomes available.

Statements made by members of the council’s executive board suggest that denominational officials were not aware of the vote and may not have even participated in the vote installing Kimer man.

“A lot of our member denominations have internal battles about this,” said the Rev. George Reed, the council’s executive director. “But the governing board felt the fact that he is a gay man was not a disqualifying factor.”

The Rev. Steve Hickle, a Methodist pastor who sits on the governing board, said Kimer’s election was possible because the council does not require theological agreement. Members work together on social issues where they can find common ground.

“The point of interreligious conversation is to continue to find common ground and understanding,” Hickle said. “We want to work together on social justice whenever we can.”

The group’s governing board does not list any members of the three African American denominations. African Americans are only “members at large”.

Hickle and Reed are referring to a diaprax (false unity). tactics liberal denominations are using with greater frequency to draw in those whose biblical beliefs are against homosexuality. Membership is not based on moral beliefs just “social justice” issues. The Raleigh Observer said the coven “signals an acceptance among member denominations – Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians and Roman Catholics – that even if they have theological differences about homosexuality, they are OK with a gay man at the helm. Or at least, they don’t see it as an issue worth fighting.”

Ecumenical unity and the false church

No sooner than the NCCC elected the homosexual cleric as its leader, it moved to accept into its membership the North Carolina branch of the Unity Fellowship Movement.

“In her letter seeking membership on behalf of her judicatory, Bishop Tonyia M. Rawls wrote, “We would consider it an honor to join in your efforts to ‘enable denominations, congregations, and people of faith to individually and collectively impact our state on issues such as economic justice and development, human well-being, equality, compassion and peace, following the example and mission of Jesus Christ’.”

We’ve reported on this bizarre group here, here and here.

The scriptures do not lie. The goal of the apostate church is to gain influence and power. Once they are in the seats of influence they will open doors for every other demon and foul spirit who applies.

The bible uses Babylon to symbolize the false church. It is growing now and will in time come to dominant religion in the world with its false prophet. But it will fall and be violently destroyed. That’s why the Spirit of God is calling the saints to come out while you can still hear his voice.

And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast. Rev 18:2 ESV

We urge God’s people to come from among them and separate yourself. Light cannot have fellowship with darkness and the spirit of God will not sanctify that which God has condemned.


23 posted on 07/04/2011 1:58:05 PM PDT by Rome2000 (OBAMA IS A COMMUNIST CRYPTO-MUSLIM)
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To: John Leland 1789

thank you for that explanation


24 posted on 07/04/2011 10:21:55 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Rome2000

NCC is apostate Christendom, not Biblical Christianity.


25 posted on 07/06/2011 4:30:21 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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To: Cronos

Is “progressive Baptist” like “peaceful Muslims” or “Amish terrorists” or some such?


26 posted on 07/10/2011 7:25:28 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Gov. Sarah Palin. What'll you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

surprisingly, no, there are these strange creatures — in large numbers.


27 posted on 07/10/2011 11:00:07 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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