Female pastors on the rise in progressive Baptist bodies

Chron.com ^ | June 2011 | Kate Shellnut

[Cronos]

The number of female pastors in Baptist churches has grown by a third in the past five years, according to a recent report covered in the Associated Baptist Press.

Baptist Women in Ministry found that women’s involvement in ordained ministry is slowly growing among organizations like the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and the Baptist General Convention of Texas. The Southern Baptist Convention’s position is that Scripture forbids women from serving as pastors.

[dixiechick2000]

Rogue Baptists.

I wonder how they feel about casseroles?

[Cronos]

I personally prefer steak and kidney pie :) More crunch!

[John Leland 1789]

They have actually ceased to be “Baptist” by historic definition, distinctive, and heritage.

[Cronos]

I don't know enough to comment on whether they are or are not Baptist by historic definition, distinctive, and heritage.

If you could explain why, that would be valuable knowledge, thank you

[sr4402]

The number of female pastors in Baptist churches has grown by a third in the past five years

They should look at the PCUSA and Episcopal denomination and what happened after they did this.

Once I visited the Presbyterian USA church men's group that was being led by a woman who exhorted us to get in touch with our 'feminen' side.

This reminded me of the Apostle Paul's admonition: "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." 1 Timothy 2:12

Funny how when the Scriptures are not viewed as Inerrant and Authoritative how easily they are ignored resulting in peril.

[Cronos]

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

no comments -- just that there are plenty like

Some have had good points of teaching. But on the other hand, I fully agree with you that letting this happen is the first step on the slippery slope

[Cronos]

I found another pastoress who seems to be non-botoxed, yet

Pastor Melissa Scott!

[MarkBsnr]

Aimee Semple Mcpherson was born in the same home town as my mom. She was not well regarded there...

[sr4402]

And See What We do to Denominations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbZcQa7fME8&feature=player_detailpage

[hfr]

Interesting questions.

I find in the Bible that there are things explicitly said, direct statements about something, they can stand alone doctrinally.

Then there are things implied, which need wider reference to establish doctrine from.

Also there are things that report what someone said or did, but don't necessarily imply approval either for the original instance or as a general principle for practice.

Finally there are those things that are "merely" mentioned, which provide tenuous basis for any doctrine.

The doctrinal basis for women in leadership roles, at least the reasoning I've been exposed to, seems to mostly rely upon the last three categories.

The first category, direct statements, run counter to these ideas.

Another thing I've noticed is that the idea of cultural relativity (even if it's not philosophically correct to call it that nowadays - but that's what it still is) is dragooned into service to eliminate objections based on direct statements that are contrary to the issues.

[Secret Agent Man]

Chalk this up as a nother article today under the headline of “Churches Not Slipping Away Fast Enough”.

[John Leland 1789]

Historic Baptist position is sole reliance on the Scriptures for all matters of faith, practice, life, death, rewards, judgment, warfare, peace, wealth, poverty, work ethic, laziness, family, child rearing, and everything else.

Since a woman can not be the husband of one (or any number of) wife, and since the Scriptural principal of headship in the home precludes a woman from “ruling [her]own house,” (the fact that many do try to rule their house not withstanding) there is no way a female can be in the bishop’s office and also be in obedience to the Scriptures.

Baptists do not accept the office of bishop as a supra-church position, but as a position within only one local church.

[John Leland 1789]

"They should look at the PCUSA and Episcopal denomination and what happened after they did this."

The difference is that Baptist churches are each autonomous and independent. These women pastors are not pushed on any local church by a denominational structure. Local Baptist churches select their own pastors, so this is a local church problem.

There is no Baptist denominational structure that ordains ministers; rather each local church calls for the ordination of its ministers, and votes up or down according to the recommendation of an ordination council invited by the local congregation to sit as a council.

Any Baptist congregation can elect to/not to fellowship with or cooperate with any other local congregation for any reason it considers proper. Therefore, no congregation is required to fellowship/cooperate with a congregation that has a female "pastor."

If a state convention or the national convention elects to seat messengers from churches which have female pastors, a Bible-believing church can just decline to send messengers, using its autonomy. The church deciding not to send messengers can also withhold financial support from the state and/or national organization(s).

And through it all, the local Bible-believing Baptist church is still a Baptist church.

Thousands of denominationally-connected Baptist churches, especially from 1945 to to 1970, ceased supporting denominational programs (Southern Baptist; American Baptist; others) and began supporting missionary projects on an individual basis.

After WWII, many Baptist missionary clearing houses sprung up around the USA for missionary activity outside of the denominational structures.

Better yet, especially from 1980, very many local Baptist churches themselves began to function as the clearing houses of missionary families sent from those churches, and from sister churches in close fellowship and cooperation.

Some of the very best pastor and missionary training schools today are operated by single independent Baptist churches, where the "President" or "Chancellor" of the school is the local church pastor himself.

So, rather than Baptists looking at what happened to Presbyterian and Episcopal denominations---that is, the consequences of making women pastors and deacons, . . . .

. . . . . the denominations should look to many Baptists who still maintain the distinctive of local church autonomy; and establish more independent Presbyterian churches and independent Episcopal congregations.

[Salvation]

It’s sad to see this happening.

[Cronos]

That’s not quite correct — all should learn from the mistakes of the PCUSA and ECUSA for getting pastoresses and then lesbian pastoresses. The SBC should learn from this and not allow this to happen, or it will go down the same route. passing the buck by saying the presbyterians should follow the baptist method is neither here not there

[Cronos]

Thanks for that, so then explicitly a Baptist church cannot have a pastoress or bishopess, right?

and Baptists do not accept the office of bishop as a supra-church position, but as a position within only one local church. -- what would then be the difference between a Baptist pastor and a Baptist bishop?

[Gamecock]

The gal pictured at the bottom is one Aimee Semple McPherson

Worth a read.

[Cronos]

could be, but Pastor Scott is hot! it would be more interesting to read about her :)

[John Leland 1789]

" . . . so then explicitly a Baptist church cannot have a pastoress or bishopess, right?"

A single/individual "Baptist" church can elect a female and install her into any office it wants to, but this does not define anything "Baptist," for sure.

The Baptist church of which I am a member would never fellowship with or cooperate with such a church. A church that would so ignore Scriptural qualifications and install a female as "pastor" has plenty more doctrinal problems; having a female pastor would be but a symptom of much deeper corruption.

Actually, the word, bishop is a proper biblical term, we believe, for what most of our churches call "the pastor," or the presiding elder, if you will, of the local assembly.

It is characteristic of Baptist churches not to use the title "Bishop" for their pastor because it is felt that the unlearned might confuse it with the sense so often used in churches employing an episcopal form of government. Baptists usually claim to use a congregational form of government (I exclude myself from the congregational form).

Many Baptists these days are also shy to use the word elder for fear that some would take it in a presbyterian or Mormon sense, governmentally. This is a little odd, though, because up to 1900 or so, Baptist ministers were typically called "Elder Smith," "Elder Jones," etc. Signs in front of Baptist churches often said something like, "Elder Jedediah Hitchcock, Pastor" (there was such a man).

John Leland was a Baptist bishop/pastor of a local church in Virginia in the 18th century, and he was known as "Elder John Leland."

Today, very many Baptist churches indeed have multiple elders (multiple ordained ministers), but it is now typical to hear them called, "Assistant Pastor," or "Associate Pastor," or "Pastor of Evangelism," or "Youth Pastor," or "Seniors Pastor."

It is not necessary, in my view, to dance all around the terms bishop and elder without using them the way Baptists did 200 years ago and even more recently.