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To: Red6; Godzilla; reaganaut; Zakeet
Do you know what they did with Smith, after they murdered him?

Do you realize that prisoner Smith had two loaded weapons smuggled into him earlier on the day he died?

If you heard about a prisoner today who was shot while shooting off two loaded weapons, what would your conclusion be? That others "murdered" him?

Indeed, we know members of that mob were out to murder Smith. [One of Smith's jailmates survived with no wounds, so we know not all were under such direct targeting] But we don't know all the reasons why Smith's jailguards gave the mob such access.

If you were a less-than-professional jail guard in those times (1844), and you knew your prisoner had loaded weapons, would you try to take those weapons away yourself -- or would you let an angry mob who had other issues with somebody in that room take care of it for you?

My main point here is that it wasn't your average "murder." It was a shoot-out. And in this way, it's a microcosm of the way so-called "Mormon persecution" from the earlier 1830s years is also presented: one of the alleged times of "persecutions" in 1830s Missouri was also a series of shootouts between the Mormon Danites, known as the Avenging Angels, and Missouri residents.

Let me provide you with a parallel illustration:

In the territorial days of the West, duels and challenges to fastest-gun draws were common. I would say that in most cases, if the one who primarily provoked such a duel was shot, law enforcement didn't press charges vs. the shooter. In fact, even if the provocateur won the duel, if it was perceived as an equal-opportunity shoot-out, the one who survived "walked."

Such shoot-outs of the 19th century, if they were perceived as a "fair draw," were not perceived as you have framed it: Persecution.

What's ironic is that here you talk about others superimposing a "sexual harem" interpretation upon 19th century polygamy, yet you're doing the same thing with these shoot-outs in 1830s Missouri! These were open conflicts in which Mormons were also killing people in Missouri!

Let me provide you with one example:
(a): Note this first entry at: Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre

In this article, it explains how the Mormons love to cite Jacob Haun (real name was spelled Jacob Hawn with a "w"), who was the owner of the Hawn's Mill. But Jacob Hawn was never a Mormon...(In that article, a historian discusses why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons.

"I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons. So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all! [Rewrite the history books and all that Mormon propaganda!]
(b) From the above-linked article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, the historian explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history." Well, I would hope that historians would present history in a more balanced way. What's NOT mentioned in that article is that 12 days before this attack:
On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.
* 6 days before this attack: • On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons. Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons

You can see how "lopsided" Mormon historians tend to present history!

76 posted on 07/04/2011 6:34:42 AM PDT by Colofornian (The Mormon church regards 100% of the founding fathers as apostates from the 'true' church)
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To: Colofornian; Red6; Godzilla; reaganaut
Do you know what they did with Smith, after they murdered him?

I do!

The Saints dumped Hyram and Joseph in this salt shed where they lay in rest for the next 80 years. Fawn Brodie attributes this action to the concern that the Gentiles would steal and defile the corpses. This seems improbable given the fact the shed was completely abandoned, unguarded, and untouched for so long. A more likely reason was the conflict among the Saints concerning selection of Smith's successor and the division of his harem. Known to Mormons as the "Succession Crisis" and called by the historian Hubert Bancroft the "Second Mormon Civil War," the fighting (also called "Blood Atonement") raged for about 2 1/2 years - until almost all of the Saints had left for Utah, or left the organization.

Joseph and Hyrum were interred in this grave in the 1920's campaign by the Saints to clean up their historical image. Joseph's only legal wife, Emma, was discovered buried under a brick pile near to the outhouse in the back yard of the Smith mansion in Nauvoo. She was dug up and laid to rest next to Joseph at the same time the new grave was completed.

80 posted on 07/04/2011 8:13:38 AM PDT by Zakeet (The Wee Wee's real birth certificate got shredded with his Rezko mortgage records)
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