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The Apocalypse Of Saint John (Revelation) Chapter 1
Douay-Rheims ^ | 70 AD | St John of Patmos

Posted on 07/27/2011 2:40:52 PM PDT by Cronos

St. John is ordered to write to the seven churches in Asia. The manner of Christ's appearing to him.

[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John, [2] Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen. [3] Blessed is he, that readeth and heareth the words of this prophecy; and keepeth those things which are written in it; for the time is at hand. [4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne, [5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

[1] "Things which must shortly come to pass"... and again it is said, ver. 3, The time is at hand-- This cannot be meant of all the things prophesied in the Apocalypse, where mention is made also of the day of judgment, and of the glory of heaven at the end of the world. That some things were to come to pass shortly, is evident, by what is said to the Seven Churches, chap. 2 and 3, Or that the persecutions foretold should begin shortly. Or that these words signified, that all time is short, and that from the coming of Christ, we are now in the last age or last hour. See 1 John 2. 18.

[6] And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen. [7] Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth shall bewail themselves because of him. Even so. Amen. [8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. [9] I John, your brother and your partner in tribulation, and in the kingdom, and patience in Christ Jesus, was in the island, which is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus. [10] I was in the spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

[8] "I am Alpha and Omega"... These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, and signify the same as what follows: The beginning and the end: the first cause and last end of all beings: who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty-- These words signify the true God only, and are here applied to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who is to come again to judge the living and the dead.

[11] Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea. [12] And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks: [13] And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the feet, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. [14] And his head and his hairs were white, as white wool, and as snow, and his eyes were as a flame of fire, [15] And his feet like unto fine brass, as in a burning furnace. And his voice as the sound of many waters.

[16] And he had in his right hand seven stars. And from his mouth came out a sharp two edged sword: and his face was as the sun shineth in his power. [17] And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, [18] And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell. [19] Write therefore the things which thou hast seen, and which are, and which must be done hereafter. [20] The mystery of the seven stars, which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches. And the seven candlesticks are the seven churches.


TOPICS: Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; revelation
The end of the Parthian Empire. Rome versus Parthia. In 70 AD we see the 4 horsemen, the Parthians with their bows and arrows against the Romans. Romaoi
1 posted on 07/27/2011 2:41:03 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
I was in the spirit on the Lord's day

This suggests Sunday Liturgy, does it not?

I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks

So St. John is at Mass and he has to turn around to see the Lord and the candlesticks. This indicates to me that St. John is celebrating Mass and as he is facing the congregation (which might have been just his secretary Prochorus), the Lord speaks to him from the altar -- where the candlesticks are.

I don't see another explanation for the fact that Jesus seems to come to St. John from behind and also the candlesticks are behind St. John. Ordinarily, when people light a fire, they also face that fire.

2 posted on 07/27/2011 3:39:17 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Cronos

In 70AD we see the 4 horsemen above Jerusalem as it is being totally destroyed by Titus.

Read up on the non-Christian historian, Josephus.


3 posted on 07/27/2011 3:45:54 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: annalex

I just want to point out, the candlesticks, or golden lampstands, are part of the vision, not objects that would have been in the room with John before he received his prophecy.


4 posted on 07/27/2011 4:19:02 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
"I just want to point out, the candlesticks, or golden lampstands, are part of the vision, not objects that would have been in the room with John before he received his prophecy."

Yes, but we still do not know what room or chapel he was in when it started. You are pointing exclusivity to the room. It may not be so. You know since I have noticed by myself and then read both Catholic and Protestant versions of views I see both views at times. I just find it is a exciting book out all the books. It is written at times for the end times generation. I have been reading some Catholic saints of note lately. Christ has a conversation with one about why Revelation is such a mystery. I have read commentaries but never any one claiming a conversation. We certainly are in crazy times today.

Praise Jesus!! Come Soon!! Amen!!!

. Since Israel came into existence sixty plus years ago. The angel told the apostle as he left so shall he come. The mount of olives in Israel. So I do not understand how people do not realize how important Israel has become

5 posted on 07/27/2011 4:47:21 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: johngrace

** It is written at times for the end times generation.**

Revelation is also allegorical Mass just as you said.

Read “The Lamb’s Supper.”

Fascinating


6 posted on 07/27/2011 5:02:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All; annalex
Good input!! Interesting. I also thInk the seven candles that represent the churches of old have double layered meaning like psalms has about Christ.

Like there are seven continents in the whole world since the church is cover in all continents( whole world) this may mean every lamp stead as church area. It's funny at that time it was written nobody knew about the seven continents. There is so much to learn and learn again. I have prayed and mediated at times. I truly believe the Holy Spirit has just enlighten my understanding lately more since the world is shifting especially the middle east.

7 posted on 07/27/2011 5:18:02 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: Salvation

I have it!! Scott Hahn!!! Yes!!!!! Amen!!! I read it !!!! Amen!!


8 posted on 07/27/2011 5:19:25 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: Cronos
APOCALYPSE 1 CHAPTER I. Ver. 1-3.  The Apocalypse, or Revelation.  I rather prefer the word Apocalypse, which the Latin interpreter did not think fit to change. — Of Jesus Christ . . . . by his Angel, sent to his servant John.  So that these things were immediately revealed to S. John by an Angel, who represented and spoke in the person of Christ.— Which must shortly come; and as it is again said, (v. 3.) the time is at hand.  This cannot be meant of all things in the Apocalypse, where mention is also made of the day of judgment, and of the glory of heaven at the end of the world.  It can only mean, that some things were to happen shortly, i.e. what is said of the seven churches.  C. ii. and iii.  Or the persecutions foretold should begin shortly.  Or else these expressions are only to signify, that all time is short, and that from the coming of the Messias, we are not in the last age, or the last hour.  See 1 Jo. ii. 18.  Wi. — S. John excites their attention by the most pressing motives, the approach of the events.  Whatever explanation be given of this book, it is equally true in all, that the time is at hand, when it will begin to be accomplished.  To find our consolation and happiness in this sacred book, according to the promise of the Holy Spirit, we must peruse it with faith and humility, receive the interpretation of the Church with submission and docility, and practise the truths contained with fidelity and promptitude.  What is the life of man, since ages are but moments that escape us?  Eternity is but a moment, but a moment that will never end. Ver. 4-6.  John to the seven churches,[1] afterwards named; and by them, to be understood of all churches, bishops, and people in the like dispositions. — From him, who is, who was, and who is to come.  As these words are only applied, and applicable to him, who is truly God and eternal, Alcazar (p. 176) applies them to God the Father.  Others think them to be spoken of God, as the word God agrees to all the three divine persons, who are one and the same God.  See Ribera. — And from the seven spirits.  Alcazar understands them of seven of God's attributes, or perfections, but, by the common exposition, are meant seven of the chief created spirits, who in a special manner assist at the throne of God, employed to execute God's commands, as Raphael saith, (Tob. xii. 15.) I am one of the seven who stand before God.  Wi. — Spirits, &c.  Some understand this of the Holy Ghost, on account of his seven gifts; but the most literal interpretation is of the principal Angels, who always surround the throne of God, and are his ministering spirits.  Calmet. — And from Jesus Christ,[2] made man, and the Redeemer of mankind, whom S. John here names after the seven spirits, because he continues his discourse about Christ, who is the faithful witness; testified and approved of God by so many miracles, prophecies, &c.  He is the chief of the martyrs or witnesses, as the Greek word signifies. — The first begotten of the dead, both first in dignity, and first that rose to an immortal life. — The prince of the kings of the earth, whose power is infinitely greater than all theirs; and this to put the suffering Christians in mind, that they needed not to fear the persecuting emperors, who have no power after this life. —  And Christ hath made us a kingdom, inasmuch as by his grace he has made us members of his true Church, called the kingdom of God, and promised us to reign with him in his glorious kingdom in heaven. — And hath made us priests to God, and his Father, to offer up spiritual sacrifices.  See 1 Pet. ii. 9. — To him be, or is due, glory and empire, for ever and ever.  Amen.  That is, to Jesus Christ.  Wi.  Ver. 7.  Behold he cometh, or is to come at the day of judgment.  Wi.   Ver. 8.  I am Alpha, and Omega.  These, the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, signify the same as what follows, the beginning, and the end, the first cause and last end of all intelligent beings, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.  These words agree only to him, who is the true God, and here are applied to our blessed Redeemer, who is to come and judge all.  Wi. Ver. 10.  On the Lord's day.[3]  Not on the Jewish sabbath, which is our Saturday, but on the Christian sabbath, our Sunday, called the Lord's day.  The Church, in the apostle's time, changed the day of rest, on which the Jews were commanded to rest and sanctify that day, from Saturday to Sunday, from the last day of the week to the first.  They judged this only to be an indispensable precept, that some day or some time should be appointed, in a special manner, for God's service and worship, on which Christians should also abstain from servile works, that were not of necessity: as to the determination of such a day of the week, they judged that the Church had power to change the day.  The late pretended reformers have all agreed with us in this change.  And if they would have all that is expressed in this commandment, to be of an indispensable and unchangeable obligation, according to the letter of the law, they ought certainly to observe, to sanctify, and to abstain from all servile works on Saturdays, or on the Jewish sabbath. — A great voice, as of a trumpet.  To signify the importance of things to be revealed.  Wi. — Voice, &c.  This was most likely S. John the Baptist, who calls himself the voice of one crying in the desert, and who in Malachy is called the Angel of the Lord, as he is also styled in the first verse of this chapter.  Pastorini. Ver. 12.  I saw seven golden candlesticks, which, by the last verse of this chapter, represented the seven Churches of Asia.  We may suppose these candlesticks to have been shewn to S. John, like what is described, Exod. xxv. 31.  For in these visions of S. John are frequent allusions to the former tabernacle, and to things relating to the service and worship of God, which Moses was ordered to make.  Wi.  Ver. 13.  And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, i.e. walking among the candlesticks, like unto Christ, as he many times called himself the Son of man, and at other times told the Jews he was the Son, the only begotten Son of God.  By this walking among the candlesticks is signified his providential care over all the particular Churches, which make up one Catholic Church. — With a long garment,[4] and a golden girdle, with a resemblance of the habit of the priests.  Wi. — Jesus Christ is in the midst of his Church to enlighten it, to defend and sanctify it, the true model of pastors, who should reside in the midst of their flock, be clothed with sanctity and justice, and girt with the golden girdle, i.e. with singular purity, always ready for combat and labour, by their charity and zeal.  Ver. 15.  His feet like unto fine brass, to signify the purity and steadfastness of his steps and actions. — His voice as the sound of many waters, the sound of his preaching by himself, and by his apostles, has been heard throughout all nations of the world.  Wi.   Ver. 16.  In his right hand seven stars, which, as it is said, (v. 20.) were the Angels, i.e. the bishops of the seven churches, by this comparison is expressed their dignity. — And from his mouth came out a sharp two-edged sword.  The word of God preached is compared to a two-edged sword.  Ephes. vi. 17. and Heb. iv. 12.  It also signifies God's severity in punishing sinners.  Wi.  Ver. 17.  I am the first and the last.  These are the words of the Son of man, or of him that represented our Saviour, Christ, to S. John.  To be the first and the last, is another expression agreeing only to him who is the true God, as it is divers times applied by the prophet Isaias.  Wi. — From the 12th verse to this place we have a description of the Son of man, i.e. Christ.  The different emblematical descriptions of his countenance, his dress, &c. are similar to what are used by other prophets, and easily explained of his attributes, his eternity, vengeance, &c. &c.  Omnes passim. Ver. 18.  And alive, and was dead; always living as God, and as man was dead, died on the cross for the salvation of all men, rose again, triumphed over hell, death, and sin, and am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell, power over all, all things being made subject to me, even as man, or as God and man.  Wi.  Ver. 20.  Angels.  These are the seven bishops of the churches.  Christ's having them in his right hand, shews the care he takes of his Church.  Calmet. [1]  V. 4.  Ab eo qui erat, & qui est, & qui venturus est, απο του ο ων, και ο ην, και ο ερχομενος, as if it was said, απο του ος λεγεται ο ων, &c. [2]  V. 5.  Qui est testis fidelis, ο μαρτυς ο πιστος.  Martyr ille fidelis.  [3]  V. 10.  In Dominicâ die, εν τη κυριακη ημερα. [4]  V. 13.  Vestitum podere, ενδεδυμενον ποδηρη.  See Exod. xxviii. 51.  Daniel x. v. 
9 posted on 07/27/2011 5:45:52 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: johngrace

Haydock commentary. Not easy to space it on a tablet. I will try to convert again on home computer.


10 posted on 07/27/2011 5:47:45 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: Cronos
"The end of the Parthian Empire. Rome versus Parthia."

The Parthian Empire didn't end until 224 A.D. and Rome didn't end it.

11 posted on 07/27/2011 5:53:39 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Boogieman

Yes, the candlesticks are part of the vision, but it does not exclude them being at the same time part of the interior of the Church, either as physical candlesticks or candlesticks miraculously appearing. In any case, they are flanking the altar, which is a part of the same vision (Acts 6:9 and several following). The vision therefore includes Christ, the altar and the candlesticks.

That Christ would appear to St. John in the context of an altar is in itself consistent with what altars are, but the two clues: that it was a Sunday and that St. John had to turn to see the vision, — completes the scene for me as happening during Mass which St. John is offering.

I would agree that St John being in exile suggests that the physical altar was quite modest and augmented in the vision by showing not only the intrinsic glory of the altar of Christ, but also the relics of saints at the foundation of it, and the cosmic events accompanying the sacrifice on it (see 6:9, 8:5, 5:6-12).


12 posted on 07/27/2011 6:10:53 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: johngrace
the seven continents

The intent was certainly to show Church Catholic also in the geographical sense.

13 posted on 07/27/2011 6:13:05 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Cronos

Apocalypse i.

Notes & Commentary:

Ver. 1-3. The Apocalypse, or Revelation. I rather prefer the word Apocalypse, which the Latin interpreter did not think fit to change. -— Of Jesus Christ....by his Angel, sent to his servant John. So that these things were immediately revealed to St. John by an Angel, who represented and spoke in the person of Christ.-— Which must shortly come; and as it is again said, (ver. 3.) the time is at hand. This cannot be meant of all things in the Apocalypse, where mention is also made of the day of judgment, and of the glory of heaven at the end of the world. It can only mean, that some things were to happen shortly, i.e. what is said of the seven churches. (Chap. ii. and iii.) Or the persecutions foretold should begin shortly. Or else these expressions are only to signify, that all time is short, and that from the coming of the Messias, we are not in the last age, or the last hour. See 1 John ii. 18. (Witham) -— St. John excites their attention by the most pressing motives, the approach of the events. Whatever explanation be given of this book, it is equally true in all, that the time is at hand, when it will begin to be accomplished. To find our consolation and happiness in this sacred book, according to the promise of the Holy Spirit, we must peruse it with faith and humility, receive the interpretation of the Church with submission and docility, and practise the truths contained with fidelity and promptitude. What is the life of man, since ages are but moments that escape us? Eternity is but a moment, but a moment that will never end.

Ver. 4-6. John to the seven churches,[1] afterwards named; and by them, to be understood of all churches, bishops, and people in the like dispositions. -— From him, who is, who was, and who is to come. As these words are only applied, and applicable to him, who is truly God and eternal, Alcazar (p. 176) applies them to God the Father. Others think them to be spoken of God, as the word God agrees to all the three divine persons, who are one and the same God. See Ribera. -— And from the seven spirits. Alcazar understands them of seven of God’s attributes, or perfections, but, by the common exposition, are meant seven of the chief created spirits, who in a special manner assist at the throne of God, employed to execute God’s commands, as Raphael saith, (Tobit. xii. 15.) I am one of the seven who stand before God. (Witham) -— Spirits, &c. Some understand this of the Holy Ghost, on account of his seven gifts; but the most literal interpretation is of the principal Angels, who always surround the throne of God, and are his ministering spirits. (Calmet) -— And from Jesus Christ,[2] made man, and the Redeemer of mankind, whom St. John here names after the seven spirits, because he continues his discourse about Christ, who is the faithful witness; testified and approved of God by so many miracles, prophecies, &c. He is the chief of the martyrs or witnesses, as the Greek word signifies. -— The first begotten of the dead, both first in dignity, and first that rose to an immortal life. -— The prince of the kings of the earth, whose power is infinitely greater than all theirs; and this to put the suffering Christians in mind, that they needed not to fear the persecuting emperors, who have no power after this life. -— And Christ hath made us a kingdom, inasmuch as by his grace he has made us members of his true Church, called the kingdom of God, and promised us to reign with him in his glorious kingdom in heaven. -— And hath made us priests to God, and his Father, to offer up spiritual sacrifices. See 1 Peter ii. 9. -— To him be, or is due, glory and empire, for ever and ever. Amen. That is, to Jesus Christ. (Witham)

Ver. 7. Behold he cometh, or is to come at the day of judgment. (Witham)

Ver. 8. I am Alpha, and Omega. These, the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, signify the same as what follows, the beginning, and the end, the first cause and last end of all intelligent beings, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. These words agree only to him, who is the true God, and here are applied to our blessed Redeemer, who is to come and judge all. (Witham)

Ver. 10. On the Lord’s day.[3] Not on the Jewish sabbath, which is our Saturday, but on the Christian sabbath, our Sunday, called the Lord’s day. The Church, in the apostle’s time, changed the day of rest, on which the Jews were commanded to rest and sanctify that day, from Saturday to Sunday, from the last day of the week to the first. They judged this only to be an indispensable precept, that some day or some time should be appointed, in a special manner, for God’s service and worship, on which Christians should also abstain from servile works, that were not of necessity: as to the determination of such a day of the week, they judged that the Church had power to change the day. The late pretended reformers have all agreed with us in this change. And if they would have all that is expressed in this commandment, to be of an indispensable and unchangeable obligation, according to the letter of the law, they ought certainly to observe, to sanctify, and to abstain from all servile works on Saturdays, or on the Jewish sabbath. -— A great voice, as of a trumpet. To signify the importance of things to be revealed. (Witham) -— Voice, &c. This was most likely St. John the Baptist, who calls himself the voice of one crying in the desert, and who in Malachias is called the Angel of the Lord, as he is also styled in the first verse of this chapter. (Pastorini)

Ver. 12. I saw seven golden candlesticks, which, by the last verse of this chapter, represented the seven Churches of Asia. We may suppose these candlesticks to have been shewn to St. John, like what is described, Exodus xxv. 31. For in these visions of St. John are frequent allusions to the former tabernacle, and to things relating to the service and worship of God, which Moses was ordered to make. (Witham)

Ver. 13. And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, i.e. walking among the candlesticks, like unto Christ, as he many times called himself the Son of man, and at other times told the Jews he was the Son, the only begotten Son of God. By this walking among the candlesticks is signified his providential care over all the particular Churches, which make up one Catholic Church. -— With a long garment,[4] and a golden girdle, with a resemblance of the habit of the priests. (Witham) -— Jesus Christ is in the midst of his Church to enlighten it, to defend and sanctify it, the true model of pastors, who should reside in the midst of their flock, be clothed with sanctity and justice, and girt with the golden girdle, i.e. with singular purity, always ready for combat and labour, by their charity and zeal.

Ver. 15. His feet like unto fine brass, to signify the purity and steadfastness of his steps and actions. -— His voice as the sound of many waters, the sound of his preaching by himself, and by his apostles, has been heard throughout all nations of the world. (Witham)

Ver. 16. In his right hand seven stars, which, as it is said, (ver. 20.) were the Angels, i.e. the bishops of the seven churches, by this comparison is expressed their dignity. -— And from his mouth came out a sharp two-edged sword. The word of God preached is compared to a two-edged sword. (Ephesians vi. 17. and Hebrews iv. 12.) It also signifies God’s severity in punishing sinners. (Witham)

Ver. 17. I am the first and the last. These are the words of the Son of man, or of him that represented our Saviour, Christ, to St. John. To be the first and the last, is another expression agreeing only to him who is the true God, as it is divers times applied by the prophet Isaias. (Witham) -— From the 12th verse to this place we have a description of the Son of man, i.e. Christ. The different emblematical descriptions of his countenance, his dress, &c. are similar to what are used by other prophets, and easily explained of his attributes, his eternity, vengeance, &c. &c. (Omnes passim.)

Ver. 18. And alive, and was dead; always living as God, and as man was dead, died on the cross for the salvation of all men, rose again, triumphed over hell, death, and sin, and am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell, power over all, all things being made subject to me, even as man, or as God and man. (Witham)

Ver. 20. Angels. These are the seven bishops of the churches. Christ’s having them in his right hand, shews the care he takes of his Church. (Calmet)


14 posted on 07/27/2011 8:48:10 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: annalex
Yes, during their time and future. Remember these churches grew through out time. God can be showing the seeds of these churches eventually representing the seven continents of the world. It is growing as presented in the beginning of revelation. There are churches on the seven land masses. The seven spirits before God I believe represent the head angels above each angels in the seven continents of the world.

. I do not find it just a coincidence that seven angels are in front our Lord then also that seven means a complete whole number. Then the seven continents are land mass where people can only really live. The whole earth which will be perfected when Christ comes. Seven equals perfection. Thy will be done as on earth as in heaven. Holy Heaven = Holy Earth.

15 posted on 07/27/2011 10:30:23 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: annalex

Good analogy!


16 posted on 07/27/2011 10:38:02 PM PDT by johngrace
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To: 353FMG

Thank you for that — I’ve read excerpts of Josephus, mostly to check on other sources, not in entirety. The 4 horsemen were above Jerusalem as it was being destroyed — just as St. John prophesised — thank you again for pointing it out


17 posted on 07/27/2011 11:00:28 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Flag_This

you are correct. I was trying to be succinct but failed miserably.


18 posted on 07/27/2011 11:02:39 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos

Sorry - I didn’t mean to sound like a jerk. I was actually curious about what you meant (maybe I was too succinct). I had always thought that Rome and Parthia had clashed, but not in a real serious way - like say, Carthage.


19 posted on 07/28/2011 5:09:47 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: Flag_This
no you weren't like a jerk, you corrected my sentence as my sentence was wrong.

In many ways the Rome-Parthia clash was serious, almost like Rome-Carthage, but at a different level (during the Punic wars Rome was still a first rate power, not the superpower it became) as both were superpowers in their own rights

20 posted on 07/28/2011 9:59:31 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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