[count-your-change]

“And you have evidently never been to a Catholic/Orthodox community then you would see that many preachers and disciple makers are not ministers.

The “evangelization” is by the community — whether laity or clergy”

All Christians are to be ministers according to what Paul wrote at Eph. 4:11,12. And Timothy was to be a preacher of the good new, an evangelizer, a minister. (2 Tim. 4:2,3)

So the notion of laity and a separate clergy set off by special dress and titles and all the rest is not at all Scriptural. If fact Jesus condemned such things.

Paul's comments to the Thessalonians about an apostasy occurring while he was alive and his even naming such persons when he wrote to Timothy shows that oversowing of weeds was then and that both weeds and wheat have been growing together until ripening now.

“”, the weeds that have sprung up in the past few hundred years have died out or developed cancers or mutated way beyond Christianity. Think Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians etc.”

How could anyone who is familiar with the murderous and immoral history of the Catholic Church call others “mutated, cancerous”? Astounding, utterly astounding.

[Cronos]

cyc: All Christians are to be ministers according to what Paul wrote at Eph. 4:11,12.

Eph. 4:11,12 says that 1And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Most definitely Paul himself is stating that not ALL are called to be ministers

[Cronos]

cyc: And Timothy was to be a preacher of the good new, an evangelizer, a minister. (2 Tim. 4:2,3)

And all of us have our ministries, whether laity or clergy.

[Cronos]

cyc: So the notion of laity and a separate clergy set off by special dress and titles and all the rest is not at all Scriptural. If fact Jesus condemned such things.

Actually, firstly the clergy are not "set off by special dress" -- they wear modern clothes most of the time, but when celebrating the holiest of all prayers, the Divine Liturgy, at that time they wear what was worn then at the time of the Apostles. Customs and fashions may change -- whether in doctrine or in dress, but the Apostolic Church does not

[Cronos]

cyc: Paul's comments to the Thessalonians about an apostasy occurring while he was alive and his even naming such persons when he wrote to Timothy shows that oversowing of weeds was then and that both weeds and wheat have been growing together until ripening now.

2 Thessalonians never says, nor is there one shred of biblical evidence elsewhere to say, that a total apostasy would ever happen. Apostasy, yes, but total apostasy, no.

Old Testament prophecies on Christ's ministry the Church talk of it as perpetual and incorruptible as a whole

Daniel 7:13-14: ". . . behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man , and he and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed"

There was no total apostasy -- that is a Mormon/Adventist/Jehovah's Witness fantasy -- and contradictory to scripture

In Ephesians 1:23 Paul says 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all

He says in Eph 2 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord

And Eph 3:20-21 "Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, to him be glory in the Church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen."

The history of actions of some men in orthodoxy does not affect the basic faith which is of Christ Jesus as He spoke, in contrast, the weeds that The Unitarians, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons are groups that have sprung up in the past few hundred years have died out or developed cancers or mutated way beyond Christianity --> the cancer, the murderous and immoral history is in the very doctrine of these weeds in the first place and they continue to mutate away from Christianity.

[FormerLib]

So the notion of laity and a separate clergy set off by special dress and titles and all the rest is not at all Scriptural. If fact Jesus condemned such things.

Then why did the Apostles lay their hands upon Stephen and the other deacons if there was "nothing special" going on?