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Not Madonna's Kabbalah
Chabad.org ^ | 9/4/2011 | Tzvi Frieeman

Posted on 09/04/2011 9:41:44 AM PDT by Phinneous

Inside your body breathes a person—a soul. Inside the body of Jewish practice breathes an inner wisdom—the soul of Judaism. We often call it “Kabbalah”, meaning “receiving.” Just as Jewish practice is received through an unbroken, ancient tradition from the revelation at Sinai, so is its soul.

Kabbalah, then, is the received wisdom, the native theology and cosmology of Judaism.


TOPICS: Judaism; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: faithandphilosophy; kabbalah; madonna; orthodox; torah
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To: Tzfat
Nothing I wrote was misrepresentative, nor was it dismissive. My point was that the original article gives a very simplified Hasidic point of view of Kabalah, without revealing the problems of both theology and historicity that texts like the Zohar present.

Simply because I have read the text critically rather than uncritically does not mean that I have not read it.

21 posted on 09/04/2011 2:52:51 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
The Ein Sof, being strictly unnamable, is not perfectly contiguous

Funny. You use the word "contiguous" in reference to Ein Sof, in the same breath as "unnamable"? Ontologically speaking, "contiguous" is about 7 levels below a name. Isn't Ein Sof [Infinite] beyond the concept of "contiguous"?
22 posted on 09/04/2011 2:59:31 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat
The Ein Sof is supposed to be beyond all description, thus the difficulty of unambiguous reference. This is one of the key issues: the Torah ascribes the category of existence unambiguously to HaShem - even using existence as a definition of the name. Yet Ein Sof is supposed to transcend even existence/nonexistence (the famous "ten Sefirot of nothingness").

Further the Sefirot can be predicated of HaShem, but not of the Ein Sof.

There is also a distinction to be made between the Shekhinah (which the Ari refers to as a bride) and HaShem himself as well as between Keter and HaShem and Malkhut and Shekhinah - all of which become blurrier the more they are discussed in the literature.

23 posted on 09/04/2011 3:20:37 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Please give a listen to “The Oral Law part 1” at

http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/Rabbi_Gottlieb_Tapes.html


24 posted on 09/04/2011 3:55:21 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: wideawake
The Pharisees as a school developed long after the Babylonian Captivity.

Near as I can figure, long after was about one hundred fifty years. A drop in the bucket of time when a captive people is absorbing itself in a new culture. But just about right for a bottom-up transformation. I'm clinging to my earlier statement about the Pharisees sect.

The Torah was reestablished in Jerusalem by the men of the Great Assembly, who produced the theology of Malachi and Ezra

Did not the men of the Great Assembly seal the Torah, thus shutting down the open line with God the Prophets utilized to teach or warn the Jewish people? During their time, didn't the Great Assembly also shift the emphasis from Temple worship and codify prayers and civil law as the Talmud, in essence, setting the Law above God?

I interpret those actions as a rejection of their Mosaic roots while embracing change learned from their previous time in Babylon.

Moreover, the term "Mystery Babylon" has no historical value. It was invented by Alexander Hislop, whose work has been proven to be mostly invented out of his own fevered brain.

The term Mystery Babylon could be read in the Bible a full seventeen hundred years before Alexander Hislop uttered the phrase.

I would point out that the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth was more closely related to the Pharisees than it was to any other school of Judaism.

Please explain further. If there was one thing I thought I understood it was the one hundred and eighty degrees that seperated the Pharisees from Jesus.

25 posted on 09/05/2011 12:31:28 AM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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To: MurrietaMadman

Interesting post. I’ve always simply identified the Shekinah Glory as a manifestation of His indwelling.

One example would be the burning bush, another the pillar of fire advancing in the desert before the Hebrew nation, another is the phenomenon of halo as depicted in many medieval artistic renderings, as well as the cloud surrounding the Tabernacle when He was present within.


26 posted on 09/05/2011 12:52:00 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Tzfat
References to the Shekinah predate the Talmud.

Certainly by now you have recognized the level of my Hebrew scholarship. I appreciate your input.

Anything that predates the Talmud has to be ok by me.

The concern that started my Sheckinah search was based on learning that the term was being used in an occultic sense by various church groups that appear intent on improving Christianity without the proper authorization.

The search I made lead me to what appearss to be a Talmudic derivitive of a Chaldean religion. I'm not blaming the Jewish people for that anymore than I blame the people who vote for any Republican believing it to be a means to returning to the good old days.

27 posted on 09/05/2011 1:08:58 AM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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To: wideawake
The majority opinion seems to be that the Zohar was written by Moses de Leon, and the attribution to Shimon bar Yochai was a ruse to increase the price he charged. The presence of Spanish loan words in the original text provides a certain support for this opinion, as does the eyewitness testimony of his widow.

The book fell into a certain disrepute - quite unjustly - when Sabbatai Zevi used some of its prophecies to support his claim to be the Messiah, and many modern Jews avoid it. Its rehabilitation, mostly by Hasidic scholars, began towards the end of the 9th century.

Gershom Scholem is in my opinion the best modern authority on the Kabbalah, and indeed on much Jewish mysticism. Alas, he died in 1982, but several of his books are still in print and can be found on Amazon.

28 posted on 09/05/2011 2:03:45 AM PDT by John Locke
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To: wideawake

I’m guessing that’s a minority analysis, since the basic unifying principal of Judaism is the Shema which is about the unity of G-d (and one of the major points of the Tanya is that everything is G-d).

Can you attribute your understanding to any leading rabbis, past or present?


29 posted on 09/05/2011 5:26:44 AM PDT by Piranha (If you seek perfection you will end up with Democrats.)
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To: Piranha

http://www.inner.org/nonjews/kabbalah-for-nations-monotheism.php

...Monotheistic consciousness, which started with Abraham, and which became the spiritual inheritance of all Jews, originates in the World of Emanation, where nothing stands apart and separate from the Almighty. Because of this, monotheistic consciousness allows a person to see through the multiple manifestations of the Divine that seem to fill the world around us and thereby help him or her retain perfect faith in God’s absolute Oneness.

However, non-Jews did not receive Abraham’s spiritual inheritance and therefore do not possess an innate monotheistic perspective on reality.

Consequently, a non-Jew may believe, theoretically, that God is One. But, as soon as questions about God’s actual manifestation in reality arise, in the mind of the non-Jew, the description of God tends to take on some form of plurality, the exact nature of which is irrelevant—it could be a duality, like the Chinese Yin and Yang, or a trinity, like the Christian model, all the way to full-fledged polytheism. The mind rooted in the consciousness of the three lower worlds creates a division in God’s true unity, a division that tends to degenerate into idol worship, as stated above.

The only remedy for this innate tendency to perceive God as a plurality (i.e., polytheism, or pantheism as the case may be) is for a non-Jew to bind his or her consciousness to the Torah’s universal teachings. The essence of the Torah that lies within its every word is that God is absolutely One.

That is the origin of the sages’ saying that every word of the Torah is a Name of the Almighty. The subliminal and conscious message forever transmitted by the Torah to both the Jew and the non-Jew is the message of God’s absolute and undividable unity.


30 posted on 09/05/2011 5:32:07 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto; wideawake

I agree with you that any expression of G-d as a multiplicity, such as wideawake’s understanding of the Ein Sof, is not a Jewish concept and, to a Jew, is heretical. That is where I was going with my questions.


31 posted on 09/05/2011 6:24:42 AM PDT by Piranha (If you seek perfection you will end up with Democrats.)
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To: Piranha

During a class by a famous rabbi (noted for his contacts with Christian clergy and his tolerance of alternative views), I was shocked when he remarked off-handedly that one of the main occupations of Christian theologians was “telling big giant whoppers”!


32 posted on 09/05/2011 6:30:49 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: All

The thread is morphing into a few strings. On the issue of authenticity of Kabbalah as a tradition (as I posted to some privately) from Adam the first man, through Abraham, author of the Sefer Zetzirah,) the tribe of Levi while in captivity in Egypt, and beyond—Jews believe in the transmission of Torah “From Moses at Mt Sinai” when G-d Himself spoke the first two commandments to the entire nascent nation, and the last 8 through Moses. Encapsulated in the knowledge Moses expounded is all of the Kabbalah. Every “religious law” right down to modern-day Jewish law (”Hey, why can’t a Jew turn on a light switch on the Sabbath—that’s not “Lighting a fire in my tent!?!?”) is contained in Moses’ teachings, albeit in “zip” form. In fact, the Torah, not only the Talmud, is absolutely replete with the secrets of Torah and can be understood on that esoteric, mystical level—evey single letter, word, phrase, and sentence—but you have to know what you’re reading. And you have to be taught. Jews brush aside all of the challenges or proofs one may bring (vis John Locke’s post) because of the fact of transmission of Torah at Sinai, and the faith that every word of real prophesy is true (see Deuteronomy 13:1-4.)

For an insight, and if those not versed in Hebrew can bear the smattering of translated Hebrew words, here is an audio class on this weeks “parsha” the portion of Torah Jews world-wide are studying this week and reading aloud from a Torah scroll on Shabbos. It is the portion of “Ki Tetzei” (”When you shall go out...”) starting with Deuteronomy chapter 26:1. This class usually looks at one or two verses, parses them in Hebrew, and explains them with classical Jewish commentary (also essential in studying the Bible) and elucidates with teachings of Kabbalah. This week: What’s with that commandment to “send away the mother bird??” This is an authentic rendering of how Kabbalah brings out the “soul” of scripture that the original article spoke of:

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/468769/jewish/Kabbalah-on-the-Bible-Ki-Teitzei.htm

I respectfully posit that if you are studying the Bible (Torah and subsequent books of Prophets and Writings—as canonized by Judaism) in any other language than Hebrew, the language with which G-d spoke and created the universe, then you are missing the truth—on the simple translated level, metaphoric level, homiletic, and “kabbalistic.”


33 posted on 09/05/2011 6:31:21 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Cvengr
I’ve always simply identified the Shekinah Glory as a manifestation of His indwelling.

That is the projected interpretation used by many Christian ministers.

The term, however, does not appear in the Bible and since most of the New Testament writers were Jewish one could reasonably assume they had some knowledge of it. Because Aramaic was in common use during the time of Christ the word was allegedly understood and used by the Jewish population. There is no record that I've come across anyway, that Jesus or his Apostles ever used the term. Please keep in mind, I am no scholar.

One of the references used is found at http://olivebranch.proboards.com/

34 posted on 09/05/2011 8:43:07 AM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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To: MurrietaMadman

Instead of projecting what we think, let’s allow God to perform His spiritual work in us by first retruning into fellowship with Him and then studying what He provides us in His Word on the subject.

In the last verses of Exodus in Exodus 40:34-38 we read:

Exo 40:34-38
(34) Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
(35) And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
(36) And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
(37) But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
(38) For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.

These verses confirm His Glory which is manifest where He dwells (Tabernacle).

Earlier in Exodus we are given the identity of who dwells between the Cherubim on the Mercy Seat.

Exo 25:22
(22) And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

His glory and dwelling is confirmed later in Isaiah and is well known amongst the Hebrew nation.

Isa 37:15-16
(15) And Hezekiah prayed unto the LORD, saying,
(16) O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.


35 posted on 09/08/2011 8:25:16 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr; MurrietaMadman

Just one small point: The original language of Exodus 25:22 does not have the phrase ‘mercy seat’. The Hebrew phrase is “mey’al hakaporet” - ‘from on the covering’.


36 posted on 09/08/2011 9:12:15 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Cvengr

Nothing I posted came close to denying God’s glory. I could never do that. But I do deny the word Sheckinah is in the Bible. If what you posted from Exodus or Isaiah is supposed to convince me otherwise, it didn’t work. Show me the ...
if you think I’m gonna say it, you’re wrong again ;)

And I have not been dissuaded from abandoning the connection of the Queen of Heaven formerly known as the Chaldean goddess, Ashtoreth. I refer you to Jeremiah Chapter 44 for an account of God’s anger regarding the Queen of Heaven.

Nor have I abandoned my aversion to the Deified Man concept.

But I never once questioned the Glory of God.


37 posted on 09/09/2011 9:56:56 PM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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To: jjotto
"Ya could look it up!"

It would take too long, my FRiend, so I'll thank you, believe you and say good night.

38 posted on 09/09/2011 10:08:19 PM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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