Is the old Jerusalem not the new Jerusalem?

[Ancient Drive]

I found this sometime ago. I can't remember where. Some preacher breaking down the meaning of the Holy Bible's prophecies at the end of times. It got me thinking. Jesus our Lord was Jewish. Are we(Christians) the new Jewish people with a new covenant? I mean no disrespect for the OG Jewish people, God knows it. Let the mudslinging begin. Hey! Who threw that tomato at me?

[cuban leaf]

Bookmark.

It also looks a little like Herbert W. Armstrong stuff.

[cuban leaf]

Oh yeah. The “British Israelism stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_W._Armstrong

[BipolarBob]

Those who seek after the Lord with all their heart and follow His Commandments can rightfully be called spiritual Jews.

[Silver Sabre]

http://www.cogwriter.com/britishisrael.htm

[muawiyah]

Your thoughts are hardly original.

Every now and then someone tosses this piece in there for us to chew on.

First chew ~ Saddam Hussein was rebuilding Babylon a brick at a time. It still exists ~ the problem is the Euphrates River moved a tad so the city was rebuilt on the Tigris and is today called Baghdad.

Damascus is still around, but there's a very dire prophecy regarding its end ~ kind of like something you'd get with a serious nuke or two.

Some schools of thought draw a distinction between Prophetic and Actual cities and nations. That was much more popular in the 1800s before the cuniform tablets left behind by the Sumerians were found. Sumer was around 4,000 years before Abraham began his grand march out of Mesopotamia. Before those plates most of the ancient places were considered by learned scholars to be, at best, vague memories of small villages inhabited by near naked hunter gatherers, or simply mispronunciations handed down by word of mouth in a pre-literate time.

The common belief that Babylon has been destroyed is my favorite one to attack ~ since Babylon was never destroyed ~ just abandoned ~ all those prophecies dependent on its destruction have yet to happen! The destruction of Damascus has yet to happen.

BTW, there are currently more Jews in Israel than in any other country ~ somebody is returning from somewhere most likely.

[Olog-hai]

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It also looks a little like Herbert W. Armstrong stuff

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It's not. It's Sheldon Emry.

[evets]

O RLY?

[cuban leaf]

Thanks for the clarification. Something to look up...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

There are so many errors here that it isn’t worth spending the time to correct.
Go study and come back improved.

[Acrobat]

Sorry, but every single prophecy in Scripture has ended up LITERALLY fulfilled, despite the nay-sayers over time. Criticisms of the return of a Levitical priesthood, return of the nation of Israel in 1948 after 1900 years etc... puts the lie to anything like a "spiritual Israel" or a "spiritual Jew"..

Read Paul's letters where he explicitly says 'has God abandoned Israel then and adopted Gentiles instead'? And emphatically answers "No": they are blinded for a time to bring in the Church... Israel and the Church are separate things...

[jonatron]

I don’t like replacement theology and this “nothing-you-see-if-really-real” type of stuff. Just go to Jerusalem and see it for yourself.

[Tzfat]

Are we(Christians) the new Jewish people with a new covenant

No.

Supercessionism (also known as Replacement Theology) is a very old heresy. It has been around since the days of Justin Martyr and has been the basis for much of Christianity's long and sad history of anti-Semitism, theft, persecution, and murder of the the Jewish people. The National Socialist Party of Germany used it as a theological reason for the Holocaust - which is why most Lutherans in Germany did not have a problem with how Jews were treated.

My suggestion to you: run away from this as fast as you can.

[aces]

What I wonder is if the old temple is the foundation for the new, just as scripture....I think the new temple will descend onto the old and fit like a glove...but I don’t know...makes me wonder..

[massgopguy]

But is the old Shiloh the new Pittsburg Landing?

[patlin]

OK, let me see if I got this right. YHVH promises the land to Abraham and all His descendants. As promised, the children disobey YHVH and ignore His Covenant Laws so He destroys the Temple, not once, but 2x, the 2nd after Yeshua dies for our transgressions. So now we are to believe that there is a new promised land, not spoken of in His Word and it it America? Now who is the conceited one? Wasn't that the biggest transgression of all, man's conceit that destroyed the 1st 2 temples? People also need to get over this Jew & Gentile thing. There was no such thing until conceited man labeled one tribe out of the 12 because they clung to YHVH & it because of them that we even have YHVH’s WORD to read today. Everyone should be bending down & thanking a descendant of Levi, Judah & Benjamin for enduring persecution in order to preserve our eternal heritage!

[patlin]

Read Paul's letters where he explicitly says 'has God abandoned Israel then and adopted Gentiles instead'?

1st, Paul was talking about the 2 branches of the olive tree, the northern house(Ephraim) & the southern house(Judah & Benjamin). So these are not pagan gentiles who never had any historical connection to either branch that Paul is speaking of. What really trips my trigger is this...People who claim to be Gentiles (yes, I fell for this for a long time) & claim heritage to the eternal Kingdom. Gentile literally means “out of Covenant”, Hebrew meas “crossed over”. So setting religion of man aside, if we say we are followers then we are Hebrew Israelites. When Abram entered the Covenant he became Abraham, he crossed over, so those that claim the eternal kingdom is for any gentile are just plain ignorant & unstudied in the Word of YHVH because He emphatically speaks in His Word of the 2 types of gentiles.

The fact of the matter is, according to Paul, both houses(north & south) are partly blinded until Yehua's return, not just one. Christianity has missed the boat too and might I add, in a deeper & more damaging way because they have rejected His Covenant Law. Covenant & Law cannot be separated, they are one in the same. Therefore, if one claims to be a Gentile Christian, I wouldn't brag about it come judgment day.

[Silver Sabre]

There are clues in the Bible as to the “new Israel”.

Israel was to have a new home, other than Canaan Land.(2 Samuel 7:10)

Israel’s new land was to be inhabited by people gathered from many nations. (Ezekiel 38:8)

Israel was to have a land of unwalled villages, without walls, bars or gates. (Ezekiel 38:11)

Israel was to have a land of great agricultural wealth.(Deuteronomy 28:8-11)

[patlin]

Read Moshe’s (YHVH”) speech right before they crossed over the Jordan. Right then & there, it was prophesied that the 10 northern tribes (House of Ephraim) would become out of Covenant & they would be scattered to the far ends of the earth and that He would go seeking them to bring them back. He was not talking about pagan gentiles who had plenty of gods & religious feasts of their own, ie christmas & easter, He was prophesying about the children of the YHVH’s Covenant and their descendants. He promised them one land to hold forever & it is nowhere near the United States. Though He has used our nation to protect His lost sheep for a very long time. 2 Samuel is speaking of the temple. You skipped over 2 Samuel 7:1-2 where He states that the Ark of YHVH is kept in a tent. The rest speaks of the dispersion of Israel who YHVH had cast out because of their refusal to adhere to the Covenant. And this dear freeper is how rumors & false prophecy begins. By taking one little line of Scripture and twisting it to fit ones fantasy.

[Silver Sabre]

Israel was to have a land of great agricultural wealth.(Deuteronomy 28:8-11)

Sounds pretty staightforward to me. Is modern Israel a land of great agricultural wealth? Don’t think so.