Posted on 10/10/2011 7:50:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
It’s not a matter of explaining why Mormons believe that Jesus is not the one and only God or that man may become Gods themselves. I’m not particularly interested in why Mormons feel they can defend the logic of those beliefs.
The issue is that such teachings of Mormonism are vastly different from historic, Biblical Christianity. Therefore, these differences need to be pointed out so that people can see that Christianity and Mormonism are entirely different belief systems.
RE: So as appalling as becoming god sounds I understand it and don’t (now) find it offensive.
For the sake of sharper thinking, there still is an important point.
As a Roman Catholic, you DO believe that Jesus Christ IS God ( not CREATED by God, therefore, NOT God’s son in the sense that my son was born from me ). Christ was NEVER MADE, HE ETERNALLY EXISTED. HE *IS* GOD. HE *IS* THE ONLY GOD.
Do Mormons believe this?
The Nicene Creed which I believe you subscribe to clarifies this and deifferentiates those IN the faith and OUT of the faith with this statement :
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“We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];
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If Mormon’s do not subscribe to this, then even Catholic tradition cannot consider them Christian.
“As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”
The above is Mormon doctrine.
In 1 John 4 we are told to ‘test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God; Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,...’
A cult is defined by their belief about Christ and the Good News of the free gift of salvation. In other words are we saved by works or by ‘grace through faith?’
According to Mormon doctrine there was a time that Jesus was just a man but because of a right kind of life he became God. They also believe that Jehovah was once just a man and over time he was perfect enough to become God and thus create, sustain, and populate His creation. (One way God populated this earth was with many wives: Eve, Sarah, Mary,...).
Another definition of a cult is “a great devotion to a person, idea, or thing.” Joseph Smith is that person whom they follow. He, through a trance state, has given them the Book of Mormon which is the basis of their religion.
your view is oversimplified, since you fail to account for the different views or different types of “Christ”. Your assumption that Mormons believe in Christ is that the same Christ as described in the Bible is believed by Mormons, but that assumption is not accurate.
Also, mere belief in the Biblical Christ still doesn’t meet the threshold of being a Christian, since demons believe in Christ.
The word in Greek is "plēroō" which means to "to fill up, give meaning, preach perfectly"
Thus when Yah'shua went on to say "Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened", what He was saying is that He came to instruct perfectly the pure Word by rebuking rabbinic doctrinal law of man, i.e., the Sabbath laws that restricted movement that is not found in the Torah, that had added to the pure Word of YHVH. IOW, the clerics placed themselves higher than YHVH when it came to interpreting the Word of YHVH.
Big mistake, HUGE! RC doctrine is no better than that of the rabbis who Yah'shua rebuked and called least in the kingdom of heaven.
My guess is that the Liberals on the left are smiling widely at how this thread is going...
Focus on the policies of the candidates per the Constitution. Do not get distracted by theological differences among these candidates. Ultimately, that will work against the conservative message!
RE: What is a Christan? One who believes in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ.
If you use this broad definition for being Christian, then we have to call Muslims Christians too. They believe in Jesus too. Try blaspheming His name in front of a Muslim and see what kind of reaction you get.
Even Hindus believe in Jesus Christ. Many Hindus acknowledge Christ as a God-man, while believing that there have been others, such as Rama, Krishna, and the Buddha.
I guess, by your broad definition of what makes a Christian, we should call Muslims and Hindus Christian too.
That makes them Christian?
Here’s something typical that I’ve heard from liberals who claim to be Christians:
“yeah, I’m a Christian, but I believe there are many ways to God”
Me: “But what about ‘no one comes to the Father except by Me”?
“oh, He didn’t mean that.”
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I have never stated that I was a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I have done all I can to not give my personal beliefs. I do not consider it important for other to know what my religion is or isn't because I do not see anyone on this earth as my judge.
Is there room for believing that Christ was not always God? I would say there are plenty of scriptures that would lead one to believe that He increased in wisdom and stature. That He completed the work His Father sent Him to do. Prior to that what was He? I can't answer the question. I can only say that to me He is God The Son. Through Him I have the opportunity to live in His presence forever. If I get to live in His presence I fully one day expect to inherit all He has. He has told me as much through His word.
I do the best I can to truly follow Christ and admire all that do likewise but I am loathe to judge them without first really understanding their beliefs.
Mormons are different than Roman Catholics, Methodists are different than Baptists are different than Lutherans are different than Presbyterians are different than Orthodox Catholics. etc. . . . .
“I believe Mormons consider themselves to be the one with the TRUE, COMPLETE GOSPEL and that Christianity is INCOMPLETE.”
A correct view of mormon belife, and another reason why Chirstians do not accept as a rule mormon church as a Chirstian church
Jude
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people
Gal
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all.
It is not a matter of faith that I argue at least not faith alone, but logic if the Bible is correct then adding to it is not possible as it claims to be a finished and complete work.
It's truly a shame.
It is my belief that Jesus Christ is not God. Never was God and never will be God. He is the Son of God who CHOSE to come to the Earth and provide a way for the souls of ALL to be redeemed.
My purpose was not and is not to engage in a debate as to who is right or wrong here but only to show that the term "Christian" applies to a great many these days as opposed to when Jesus was alive and, I believe, that ALL followers of Christ are "Christians" just as when He was here. Does that mean that I believe all those who call themselves "Christian" are correct in their doctrine? No it does not but it is not for me to judge them. That is left to someone FAR greater than I.
But Jesus Christ did not mean that He came to abolish the Law did He? He came to fulfill it.
And what does the law that He claims to fulfill teach? THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. The God that the Israelites and Jews worship.
And how did Jesus Christ compare Himself to the God of the Jews? He equated Himself to the great I AM Himself.
see John 8:58.
In other words, He calls Himself the eternal, uncreated God that Moses himself worshipped.
Do Mormons believe this or not?
“I believe Mormons consider themselves to be the one with the TRUE, COMPLETE GOSPEL and that Christianity is INCOMPLETE.”
A correct view of mormon belife, and another reason why Chirstians do not accept as a rule mormon church as a Chirstian church
Jude
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people
Gal
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all.
It is not a matter of faith that I argue at least not faith alone, but logic if the Bible is correct then adding to it is not possible as it claims to be a finished and complete work.
I guess they don’t want to be “mean” by agreeing that the way is narrow and few find it.
RE: Mormons are different than Roman Catholics, Methodists are different than Baptists are different than Lutherans are different than Presbyterians are different than Orthodox Catholics. etc. . . . .
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Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Methodists, Luthers and Baptists all susbcribe to the CREEDS of the Historic Christian faith. This includes the Nicene Creed which delineates the difference between what Christians and heretics believe.
Mormons cannot claim to subscribe to this creed and STILL maintain fealty to their doctrine without showing contradictions.
I wish Mormons would simply acknowledge that and come out openly and say — WE BELIEVE THAT OUR FAITH IS THE MOST CORRECT ONE AND THAT THE CREEDS THAT ALL OTHERS BELIEVE IN ARE NOT.
I would accept that and resepctfully disagree with them.
Or Mormons should simply say this — We have a different definition of the term — Christian from the others. That would be more clarifying.
There’s a difference between judging a human’s soul, which is God’s authority, and rebuking false teaching, which is certainly within the rights of Christians.
What gives you the right to define the term “Christian”? Why do you think that term means anything other than how it’s defined in the Bible?
In addition Mormons put their own Book of Mormon on par with the Bible, and like so many of the earliest heresies claim Christ is a created being rather than one with the Father. Now, how many times can people keep asking this same question?
The biggest beneficiaries of nit-picking and fighting between Christian groups (especially conservative ones) are, in fact, the godless. If we're lucky, this type of thing leads to short-term abuses like the Salem Witch Trials, which ultimately resulted in the ascent of religious and other freedoms, but not without some very miserable results to inspire said backlash.
If we are not so lucky, it will lead to religious wars (see the Thirty Years War in Europe for reference) and the replacement of Christianity with Secular Liberalism (see modern Europe and most of liberal America for reference).
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