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To: who_would_fardels_bear

I would concede that evangelical religious beliefs by-and-large are closer to Christian orthodoxy than those of Mormons, but their beliefs regarding biblical authorship and science are so whacko that they make Mormon beliefs seem downright sensible.

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Having been both, you are dead wrong on this. Also, all but a few ‘evangelicals’ (mostly KJV only independent baptists) do not go around trying to get people to leave mainline churches (like you listed) in favor of a non-denominational church. Also, Evangelicals don’t lie about their faith, especially to other Christians. We accept there can be differences, and we agree on the basics However the LDS intentionally deceive non-LDS to get them to join the ‘one true church’. Here is an example of a LDS/non-LDS convo showing how they intentionally lie and omit things.

Every LDS member is expected to find ‘investigators’ (people who would be interested in converting who take the missionary discussions - similar to RCIA). There is also a lot of people who hear things about beliefs but don’t know enough to know what the LDS are saying, that they use different meanings for terms, even though the LDS usually know that Christians mean different things. A typical exchange could go like this...

non - LDS - “I have a lot of Mormon friends, and they are nice people, but don’t Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?”

LDS - No! We don’t believe that at all! Jesus is the only begotten Son of God! Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth. Why don’t you come over for dinner and we will have the missionaries talk to you? There is a set of 6 discussions that they give that shows what we believe.

non-LDS - “Well, ok, but I read somewhere that Mormons believe they will become Gods”

LDS - “That was probably written by someone who has a grudge against the Church. They probably are one of the ones who gets paid to badmouth the Church or someone who couldn’t live by the principles of the Church so they left or they were offended by someone in their ward.

Ok, lets parse this. Notice how many times “the Church” is used. For the LDS it is all about “the Church”. LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.

Then there is the automatic denial that Jesus and Satan are brothers. We saw it on this a thread the other day even. Now, all LDS know that their church teaches Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers. So why would you get a resounding “NO”? Because it makes their theology look silly. By stating “No” the LDS are lying to you, but they are thinking “Well they aren’t flesh brothers, just spirit brothers like we all are, Jesus is our Elder brother”. The other day an LDS came on one of these threads and stated “Jesus and Lucifer aren’t brothers, as if by Mary!”. Notice the subtlety of it. “As if by Mary” implying they aren’t physical brothers (which no one claimed). But they left out That Lucifer was the second born and Jesus was the firstborn of the spirit children.

Next we come to what would appear to be a rebuttal to the claim Jesus and Satan are brothers. “Jesus is the only begotten Son of God!” what they are not telling you is that they mean it in a literal sense. Jesus and Satan are SPIRIT brothers (like all of us) but Jesus is God’s physical son, God came down, had sex with Mary and conceived Jesus. So it isn’t a rebuttal at all and the LDS know that. They are intentionally twisting words to make you think they don’t believe Jesus and Satan are Spirit brothers.

Next Phrase - “Joseph Smith saw Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and they said that all other churches had some problems and Joseph needed to start a Church that was the same as the one when Jesus Christ was on the Earth.” This is referring to the “First Vision” (of which there are several contradictory accounts) and the Great Apostasy. The LDS will tone down things said about other Christians. In the first vision account, Smith isn’t told that other churches ‘had problems’ he was told “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-4,00.html

“All wrong”, “Corrupt” and Creeds an abomination are not the same as “some problems” and the LDS know that. But they will soften it in order to not scare people off or to put the LDS church in a ‘better light’.

Next - about becoming Gods. Notice the LDS response is to go down a rabbit hole, rather than addressing the comment. Instead they lead the person to believe that the source was unreliable, or written by someone who had something to gain (money) or a former Mormon with a grudge. The question itself isn’t even addressed (lying by omission). It also causes the person to think that they might be wrong and that the LDS don’t believe that, even though the LDS person knows they do.

Finally, the invitation to meet with the missionaries. There is an assumption by many that these are people who know more about Mormonism than the average member and that isn’t true either. Most men and quite a few women serve LDS missions (I nearly did). They don’t have special knowledge. They also don’t tell you is the goal of those 6 discussions is to get you baptized Mormon and there is pressure put on you to read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, make commitments and convert. Those 6 discussions aren’t just a summary of LDS beliefs, they are the requirements for conversion and that is their goal. But they don’t tell you that, they make it sound like this is just a friendly way of talking to knowledgeable people about what the LDS believe.

Also, there is the doctrine of ‘line upon line, precept upon precept’ or “milk before meat”, that coverts are only told doctrines when they are spiritually ready to hear them. The missionary discussions are the barest of milk. You learn one set of things in them, and then after you convert you start to learn the rest of LDS theology. Then after a year of faithful membership (sometimes more) you get to go to the LDS temple and learn the ‘meat’ doctrines and are sworn to secrecy (used to have to swear blood oaths).


54 posted on 10/13/2011 8:00:31 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut
One of the things that disturbs me about Mormonism is their secretiveness. Evangelicals are definitely not secretive about their beliefs which is a major plus.

The only thing they were deceitful about was acting more tolerant up front than they really were down deep. They also seemed to be rather wimpy in their proselytizing efforts: going after Christians with whom they already had a lot in common, rather that out-and-out atheists and agnostics.

I realize this is not true of all evangelicals, and I realize that many of those that appeared deceitful to me may have been more deceiving themselves then knowingly trying to deceive me. Still it left a bad taste. Especially when all the smiles and hugs and directed Bible studies ultimately led to Tony Alamo tracts and YEC drivel.

57 posted on 10/13/2011 8:12:10 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: reaganaut
Praise the Lord for bringing you out of that Cult, and Bless you for your testimony regarding the lies the Mormans teach.
70 posted on 10/13/2011 8:47:29 PM PDT by annieokie
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To: reaganaut
You know, after reading about all that, the very thought of having a guy like Romney - a bishop or some other kind of “higher up” in the LDS organization - makes my skin crawl. Imagine having someone like Tom Cruise - a Scientologist and the REAL wacko stuff they believe - running our country! YES, it matters VERY much what someone believes about everything because it will affect everything they do.
87 posted on 10/13/2011 10:27:46 PM PDT by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: reaganaut

LDS ‘testimonies’ often start out with “I know the Church is true”.
__________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The so called “church” is made up of men, right ???

Well when the Mormons tossed out the Christian Bible out went this verse...

Let God be true and every man a liar ...Romans 3:4

As a Christian my testimony is “I know God is True”

Jesus said to the Mormons, “I AM the Truth, the Life and the Way. No man or woman comes to the Father except by Me.” John 14:6


128 posted on 10/14/2011 7:07:41 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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