Jesus died once to cover ALL of our sins.
Some souls may well be purified in Hell between now and the FINAL judgement. That is not for me to say. It does not make sense to our finite minds that a person who lived a relatively moral life but never accepted Jesus as his personal savior should suffer the same ultimate punishment as a mass murderer, just as it makes no sense that the same mass murderer can accept Jesus and go to paradise.
Since the parable of Lazarus and the rich man didn’t take, as it were, on the cross Jesus said to the thief who believed on him “This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise”. He did NOT say as soon as you pay back that last dude you stole from, or suffer enough to make up for it, then you may enter heaven.
This mingling of Karma into Biblical teaching is not a plan of Salvation “so simple a child may understand”.
There is no salvation through works, penance or having someone else pray you into it. There is no purgatory.
No matter how much you lawyer around about it by men more studied in the Bible than I am, Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME!” It’s not through Mary, a Priest in a Confessional, through your works, or someone praying for you after death.
In Matt. 5:48 that perfection is accomplished through the Blood of Jesus covering our sins, not through any of our works or lack of works.
In Luke 16:19-31, of course the rich man still had compassion (worry) for his brothers. He sees them headed for the same place! His worry is part of his torture. However, there is no compassion in Hell from the Devil or God for people receiving punishment. Lazarus did not get to dip the tip of his finger in water to moisten the rich man’s tongue.
The interpretation provided for Matt 12:32 has more logical holes than a screen door and greatly overcomplicates a simple statement. I agree there is no forgiveness in any afterlife, soooooo why would there be forgiveness in purgatory, assuming it even exists? It does not imply a third state of afterlife either, regardless of WHAT Catholic doctrine has been for however long.
Luke 12:47-48 is speaking neither of heaven or hell but of the final judgement. What was the point again?
Conflating Paul’s letter to the church at Corinth with something in Maccabees (not inspired writing) wins zero points. If it isn’t a book in the KJV, it isn’t a book of the Bible. Read Corinthians again in an inspired translation. Paul is speaking AGAINST such monkey business.
Phil. 2:10 Under the earth is clearly HELL! Everyone will acknowlege God, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. Even the Demons know him now and tremble.
2Timothy concerning Onesiphorous, “that day” is the final judgement.
Hebrews 12:14 Holiness is provided freely through the blood of Jesus covering our sins. The Gospels are quite plain.
Hebrews 12:23 Again, the blood of the Son covering our sins, making us perfect in the sight of God.
As for the spirits in the prison of 1Peter, those were real, live prisoners he was praying for who believed in the simple plan of Salvation provided through Jesus’ death and resurrection.
As for the rest of the examples provided from the New Testament, the final heaven and final earth will not be here until after the FINAL JUDGEMENT. That is why rightous (saved by Grace through the blood of Jesus) souls go to PARADISE, and the others go to HELL. ALL SOULS WILL BE PASSED THROUGH THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.
The Old Testament examples of prayers for the dead is a non-starter. We are under the New Covenant of Salvation through Jesus.
I refuse to acknowledge Baruch as well. I had just as soon study the gnostics or the Mayan calender. If it’s not in the KJV, it ain’t Bible and is subject to the warning at the end of Revelation concerning adding and subtracting from His Word.
The entirety of your PartII is conflation of the final judgement with what happens at death, and reading things into passages that are not there.
As for the early historical stuff, you can find good justification for Luther’s Theses.
So, I guess we’ll just agree to disagree. I know he who is convinced against his will is not convinced at all. Furthermore, I doubt this will or can be solved in this limited forum currently at our disposal.
Speaking of the mainly political nature OF this forum, as long as you believe; this Nation was set up to govern a moral and religious people and is wholly inadequate for any other, that Jesus DID NOT tell the rich young ruler to give his money to Zaccheus (sic?) so the government could give it to the poor, and trusting the government to do the work of the Church (care for the poor, etc.) is a form of Blasphemy, I’m going to call you an ally and friend.
As for our differences in Christian interpretations, some great man of God (can’t recall right now) believed in “Unity where we agree, Liberty where we disagree, and Charity for ALL.”
It’s been fun, but I must go chop a windshield now.
May the Lord bless us enough to continue later!
In our thought, the second sentence has nothing to do with the first.
That's the problem, or a part of it. Some people do not argue against our doctrine but against something else.
You just said Some souls may well be purified in Hell between now and the FINAL judgement.
Offhand I don't see an important difference between this and the core of the teaching about purgatory.
It does not make sense to our finite minds that a person who lived a relatively moral life but never accepted Jesus as his personal savior should suffer the same ultimate punishment as a mass murderer, just as it makes no sense that the same mass murderer can accept Jesus and go to paradise.If by 'paradise' you mean heaven (which we do not) I have no problem with this. It's grace in the later case and unprofitable works in the first.
The brigand on the cross wash recipient of extraordinary grace and was doing an intense penance. So even if Jesus did mean "heaven" when he said "paradise" this does not contradict our teaching.Not everyone goes through a purgation after death.
This mingling of Karma into Biblical teaching is not a plan of Salvation “so simple a child may understand”.soooooo why would there be forgiveness in purgatory, assuming it even exists?
Those being purged are already forgiven. If you saw the video the people are on the island because they think they have been forgiven,not to earn forgiveness.
So, I guess we’ll just agree to disagree...
And one of the disagreements will be about what we actually teach. You have not argued against our teaching,not very much. You have argued against something else.