The Vatican Said What? [Document calling for 'Central World Bank' has no binding authority]

Inside the Vatican / The Moynihan Report ^ | October 24, 2011 | Dr. Robert Moynihan

[Campion]

Unlike a newspaper the council is largely made up of appointees of the Pope.

But like any other committee, they don't always reflect the views of the person who appointed them.

But whether they do or don't, this document has no binding teaching authority on anyone, and Cdl. Turkson made that quite clear by using words like "contribution" and "suggestion". It's a position paper wherein the council expresses an opinion on things. If it were the Pope's opinion and he wanted people to think of it that way, it would have been issued over his signature.

The skeptical can further tell that I'm right in saying that it has no binding authority by looking at Fr. Z's blistering rejection of it. Fr. Z's orthodoxy is hard to impeach.

[redgolum]

Yep.

And this will conflict a lot of Catholics about what should happen.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

paint the Vatican as just an uncontrollable herd of cats again

Anyone who thinks "the Vatican" is a monolithic institution all in lock step with the Pope has no grasp of the reality of the situation.

The Justice and Peace crap comes out of offices closely aligned with the Vatican Secratariat of State. The Vatican Secratariat of State is a political office that is the source of much of the problems in "Rome," just like the Bush administration's Secretary of State office was always a thorn in the side of Bush, and often undermined him.

We adults need to understand that "the Vatican" isn't one big entity in lockstep agreement. It is a place where the world's agenda/politics and the Church's mandate often clash; even churches have opposing factions with political agendas that are diametrically opposed.

Maybe that's something only well understood by us Catholics who have been deep in the battles for the soul of the Church.

I asked someone else if they thought the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano speaks "for the Vatican" or "for the Pope." Every time the liberal editor at L'Osservatore Romano published another liberal piece of clap trap, everyone says "the Vatican has taken a new position on x y z..."

Which is pure nonsense!

I wrote an article for L'Osservatore Romano two years ago. I know for a fact the Pope read it, but he never refuted it or repudiated it, etc...so I guess I speak for the Pope too, huh? Imagine, a right wing FReeper speaks for the Pope, and so does this Justice and Peace bureaucrat.

So much for the monolithic Vatican...

[newzjunkey]

"on economic issues, the Pope is to the left of Obama. He is even to the left of liberal Democrats like Nancy Pelosi."

Reuters positioning Obama as a moderate.

Thanks for this long primer. I'd only seen the Reuters story linked from Drudge but once I saw where at the Vatican this came from I dropped my alarm.

[count-your-change]

Whether a suggestion of having global authority to enforce someones ideas of fairness, etc. is binding or not really isn't the question at hand.

Whether it reflects the opinions of the Vatican is and I would ask whether the Pope has to put his signature on this to show acceptance, agreement, whatever with it.

Has he ever said anything that would lead anyone to assume he disagrees? or has his comments been in agreement with what is in this paper?

That might be a area to explore. Meanwhile I see little reason not to think it has his approval, signature or no.

Noteworthy is the call for a global enforcement entity and the likelihood of this enforcement causing anguish and suffering. To whom is not said.

[count-your-change]

“I asked someone else if they thought the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano speaks “for the Vatican” or “for the Pope.” “

Yes, You asked that of me and did you note my answer?

But if the “document” is just the personal opinions of its authors the whole matter could be made clear with a single sentence from the authors unless they feel that they do indeed speak for the Pope.

[stfassisi]

Thank You!

From Pope Leo XIII
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_20061888_libertas_en.html

It is sufficient to recall the fact that slavery, that old reproach of the heathen nations, was mainly abolished by the beneficent efforts of the Church. The impartiality of law and the true brotherhood of man were first asserted by Jesus Christ; and His apostles re-echoed His voice when they declared that in future there was to be neither Jew, nor Gentile, nor barbarian, nor Scythian, but all were brothers in Christ. So powerful, so conspicuous, in this respect is the influence of the Church that experience abundantly testifies how savage customs are no longer possible in any land where she has once set her foot; but that gentleness speedily takes the place of cruelty, and the light of truth quickly dispels the darkness of barbarism. Nor has the Church been less lavish in the benefits she has conferred on civilized nations in every age, either by resisting the tyranny of the wicked, or by protecting the innocent and helpless from injury, or, finally, by using her influence in the support of any form of government which commended itself to the citizens at home, because of its justice, or was feared by their enemies without, because of its power

[Brian Kopp DPM]

The authors made it clear how it should be interpreted:

the very authors of the document make clear how it should be evaluated: namely, as a “contribution” (as opposed to a mandate), as a “possible path” (as opposed to a moral proscription), in line with the Magisterium’s social teaching (as opposed to introducing a new teaching), without getting into the technical issues (because the Church is an expert in humanity, not economics) while fully staying within the Church’s religious and ethical functions.

[Alex Murphy]

I wonder, how many in the Teaching Magisterium DO hold this point of view? Is that faction growing, static, or dieing out?

That is the real issue, as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty of "Vatican Officials" cited by the MSM all the time, who say all manner of leftist / socialist things. This happens so often that we all expect it. No one is surprised.

But can anyone name even three "Vatican Officials" who have issued "white papers" advocating conservative ideals like constitutional republics, free markets, private property, owner's rights, or low taxation? What is being taught/discussed in the seminaries and in the Vatican centers of learning, that so many "Vatican Officials", Bishops and Priests pump out this politically socialist nonsense day after day?

Is it the spirit of the age? Or the spirit of the religion?

[BlueDragon]

The writer offer 4 strong points against such an idea as a world "Central Bank".

If one could miraculously get past such as he outlines above, who would be the banker?

Being "St. Peter's Banker" didn't work out so well for Michele Sindona, ie., failure of Franklin Bank in Manhattan/Long Island, followed by U.S. prison, then an Italian prison where he consumed poisoned, cyanide-laced coffee.

Some years later, being "God's banker" also left Roberto Calvi conspicuously hanging around under Blackfriar's Bridge.

What were the three different currencies found in his pockets? Anyone recall?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/19/newsid_3092000/3092625.stm

[count-your-change]

Yes, I read that and what are they saying except that what they wrote is quite normal, nothing radical, “in line with the Magisterium’s social teaching”?

If that be the case why the rush to say downplay it with explanations of how unofficial it is? Of all things it doesn't mean?

Or is it some sort of intellectual warm up exercise to justify support for a U.N. type global authority to dictate economic policy and enforce it?

[Joya]

Thanks RegulatorCountry and Ping to the End Times List plus a couple other folks who might find this of interest.

The temp just went up a degree or two in that pot of water. Did the little froggy notice?

FReegards,
Joya

= = = =
p.s. A.M. asked if it’s “The spirit of the age or spirit of religion?”

If it points to the One World Everything coming soon to a town near you, then it is BOTH age/religion spirit that is a package deal when the End Times happen.

Know Jesus and then you will Know Peace

No Jesus and then you will have No Peace.

Know Him. Not just on Sunday morning. Know Him through and through, all night, all day, 24/7/365: Make it a Priority.

Grab a Bible. Read it for yourself. Pray. Search yourself to see if you have Saving Faith. Faith in the Savior of the World. Inside of you.

Don’t wait. There’s really no other way to the Father except through the Son. It’s not too late. Someday it will be. Don’t wait.

[TruthConquers]

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except though me.”

Jesus Christ, Son of God

Amen

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the ping and exhortation, dear sister in Christ!

[Cronos]

Note the Magisterium is to deal with theological issues, not economical. This is economical so I would read it just as I would read something that the economic department of the government of Andorra puts out.

[Cronos]

he doesn’t care. All the Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. want is a sound-bite in their futile war against God’s Church.

[Campion]

Meanwhile I see little reason not to think it has his approval, signature or no.

What you think you "see" is not at issue. As I said, if it were the Pope's opinion and he wanted it known as such, it would have been issued over his signature.

[Joya]

“Heavenly Father, Thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory both now and forever.”

Our Lord is mighty to save: May we walk by faith and not by sight.

[Campion]

But can anyone name even three "Vatican Officials" who have issued "white papers" advocating conservative ideals like constitutional republics, free markets, private property, owner's rights, or low taxation?

How about Pius IX, Leo XIII, Pius X, Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI?

Presumably you understand that the opinion of a dead Pope counts for more than the opinions of any number of mid-level Vatican officials.

[wideawake]

There are more successful implementations of subsidiarity (i.e. America's federal Constitution) and less successful ones (e.g. the EU's current morass).