Lutheran (EL
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Wishing a Blessed Reformation Day!
Posted on 10/27/2011 4:31:34 PM PDT by rhema
My post did not address all forms of contraception, just the cavalier view of abortion in that role. What God meant by “Go forth and populate the Earth” is subject to interpretation. “Thou shalt not kill” seems pretty straightforward. And while Satan may be able to deceive the temporal powers with his rhetorical sleight-of-hand, there is little doubt that abortion is murder. How a proclaimed minister of the Gospel can endorse that practice is a mystery to me. And why anyone sincere in their faith would follow one of these apostates is even more confounding.
It is a question of intent. If the intent is not to have children in order to pursue financial gain, or pursue a career (a “me-first” attitude), then you need to rethink your values; why did you get married in the first place? If the intent is to delay for whatever reason (school, medical concerns, etc.), then perhaps it is okay.
It is also a question of the type of birth control. Abortifacient birth controls are certainly not the best since they can prevent implantation, while non-abortifacient birth controls just prevent fertilization. In general, if a church is going to be okay with birth control and still be Biblical, it will say that preventing fertilization is okay, but once the egg has been fertilized it should be in God’s hands.
As for the statement that “People who cannot afford them should not have them,” there are 2 ways to take it. Are they saying that they don’t believe God will provide for them if they have a child? Alternatively, are those who say that “God will provide” means that they should have all the kids they can putting God to the test by having more children than they can afford to provide for?
The ELCA is now an unholy owned subsidiary of Satan, Inc.
“As for the statement that “People who cannot afford them should not have them,” there are 2 ways to take it. Are they saying that they don’t believe God will provide for them if they have a child? Alternatively, are those who say that “God will provide” means that they should have all the kids they can putting God to the test by having more children than they can afford to provide for?”
This whole thing makes me think of Matthew 6:24-33
24
15 “No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
25
16 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat (or drink), or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
26
Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they?
27
Can any of you by worrying add a single moment to your life-span? 17
28
Why are you anxious about clothes? Learn from the way the wild flowers grow. They do not work or spin.
29
But I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was clothed like one of them.
30
18 If God so clothes the grass of the field, which grows today and is thrown into the oven tomorrow, will he not much more provide for you, O you of little faith?
31
So do not worry and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or ‘What are we to drink?’ or ‘What are we to wear?’
32
All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all.
33
But seek first the kingdom (of God) and his righteousness, 19 and all these things will be given you besides.
34
Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.
In this day and age I have yet to see people have children to “test God” but I suppose anything could happen. It seems they are aborting them because of the “me first” attitude.
I believe you are correct, they don’t have faith that “God will provide”.
Sadly, that has been true for longer than many think. In the 80’s, even shortly before ELCA was formed by a union of the LCA, ALC, and AELC (1988), there was an active effort made to inculcate higher-critical exegetical principles into the minds of its (their) people. In other words, to undermine the trust of their people in the Bible. This was pursued very actively ... I have some of the materials from back then (mid- to late- 80’s). They seduced many people into thinking of the Bible along the same lines as higher-critical “scholarship.” (For the difference between higher and lower criticism, see any number of articles, books or, all else failing, the internet). Over time believers trickled out of ELCA, knowing that something was amiss, but not sure exactly what it was.
Obviously, in the last few years the leadership of ELCA decided that the percentage of problem members (i.e., real believers) to members of whom it approved had declined to a small enough number that they could openly declare their true allegiances, e.g., homosexuality, same-sex marriage, abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, divorce, open marriage, socialism/communism (all the “causes celebres” of the 60’s). What remains of the ELCA, as congregations leave by the hundreds, is the unbelieving but nostalgiac, who think that worship is “nice” and “comforting,” but otherwise really have no idea why that might be true. But, above all, they are thralls to every new progressive whim that comes down the path.
The ELCA is not Lutheran. It is not Christian. It is not American (at least not according to the way of thinking of the Declaration and Constitution). It is a feel-good society that gathers on Sunday to participate in warm, fuzzy worshipy activities. It is, in other words, shallow and meaningless. It will not survive.
And business, thankfully, is declining.
"In 2008 after adjusting for inflation, the value of mission support income had declined by half since the founding of this church in 1988," [ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark] Hanson wrote to the council. "From 2008 to 2011, estimated churchwide mission support dropped from $65.3 million to $48 million." The work of the design team is based on an estimated range of $45 million to $48 million in annual mission support income for the next three years, Hanson said.
This is a very sad article for me, because I know several of the signers of this “declaration”, and I know some of them well. The ELCA used to have a core of conservative Christian leaders who were respected even outside of the ELCA, plus a large number (perhaps a majority) of conservative laity. Those days are long gone.
Since being received into the Orthodox Church in 2008, my former ELCA parish has gone from bad to worse. It is now a haven for “gay couples”, some with children, and has at least one vocal transgendered member. It also has had muslim spokespeople in to practice “da’wa” (i.e., propaganda), in one case with youth without adult supervision. The pastor has also become a vocal supporter of the most radical muslims.
Of course, that parish, or almost any ELCA parish, can hardly expect to maintain its numbers by taking in moderate-to-conservative Christians. So it has to turn to gaysbians and flaming liberals to stay in “business”.
The parish seems to be a success. It has completed a major renovation, and has had a modest increase in members. However, worship attendance has declined to 29%, and no youth have been confirmed since 2007, when only one was.
Meanwhile, of members removed since 2008, NO ONE was counted as removed via transfer to another parish. People who are removed either die, or else fall into the category of “Other & Statistical Adjustment”. That included yours truly, who left to become what I already was in my heart, an Orthodox Christian! Some “statistical adjustment”!!!! I wonder whether any others of the “statistical adjustments” left to join other churches that would be equally embarrassing to report to the current ELCA establishment!
It is one thing to stay “in business” by catering to gaysbians and hipsters. But what about being faithful to our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ? ELCA liberals are deluding themselves into thinking that they are operating “successful” parishes, while the entire liberal protestant community comes crashing down around them!
There are many real Christians who feel “stuck” in the ELCA. Some of them have Orthodox hearts, and belong in the Orthodox Church. In any event, anyone who feels that they are “stuck” and cannot move need to (by the help of God) get free from the shackles that Satan has bound them in, and leave the ELCA ASAP!!!! It is crucial for their salvation, and for the salvation of their loved ones!!!!
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Wishing a Blessed Reformation Day!
Worth noting: A former Roman Catholic Priest.
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I don’t recognize any of the names but I don’t really care. We do our own mission work and are self-sufficient. I would like for good measure for us to bail but the ELCA has made it very costly.
We publish our yearly budget and we don't contribute to the ELCA, and we don't take their blood money either. We have year round missions thanks to a great leadership team, great volunteers and the benefit of being in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago. I'm not on staff anymore but from what I've been hearing from some on the Pastoral team is the ELCA is angry, but don't want to boot us for fear of losing our numbers!!!
It's funny because one of our Pastors is very close to my family and he is probably just as conservative as everyone else here. He absolutely despises the ELCA, but is tied to our church due to friends and family. That is the benefit of being self-sufficient. If however, things changed and money of ours flowed to Hanson's propaganda I will leave the church immediately.
I heard that the Chicago Metro. Synod and the Iowa Synod, of the ELCA, have Don’t Ask; Don’t Tell rules for gays. Do you know of any other ELCA synods who have the same rule? If so, please list the synods.
ELCA policy as of August 2009 is that gays in “publicly accountable lifelong monogamus relationships” (PALMRs)are no longer barred from being Ordained.
The Ordination of one such person in San Fransisco was a feature article in the Lutheran magazine a couple of months ago.
I heard about that policy, on Aug. 22, 2009. Some synods have their own rules, determined by the bishops.
They never beat the Scouts.
That tells you something.
The Marines, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans all fell.
Only the Boy Scouts stood strong.
I also noticed that the last thing in government that ran well were the four military academies. They all have honor codes. Minute you leave that place it goes downhill from there.
DADT had been very widespread before 2009.
Now the ELCA has gone from tacit “toleration” to open celebration.
The Devil will have to build an addition onto Hell to accommodate all those people on that list...
Every conservative parish in the ELCA is just one pastoral transition away from becoming a radical, “gay”, feminazi, and dhimmi-infested parish!
Every conservative synod in the ELCA (if any still exist) is just one episcopal transition away from becoming a radical, “gay”, feminazi, and dhimmi-infested synod!
Get out now, before these transitions occur (which could be sooner than you think)!!!!
Perhaps ELCA mega-churches should make it easy by joining LCMC without leaving the ELCA. Then their corrupt “bishops” will be forced to kick the mega-churches out of the ELCA. But please learn as much about current ELCA and synod politics as you can before doing so—I’m a bit rusty for obvious reasons.
Sad, but hardly unexpected. The conservative members and congregations are leaving, so the remainder is the bunch of liberal wackos that drove us out.
Happy All Saints’ Day!
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