Skip to comments.Occult, occultist, occultism. Meanings ... why some churches consider occultism as something ZOT
Posted on 11/11/2011 2:47:13 PM PST by Love Wisdom Truth
Occult, occultist, occultism.
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. mysterious.
4. Hidden from view; concealed.
Why some churches consider occultism as something wrong/bad?
If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is. Man made theories or hypothesis don't mean anything to me. As it is said “the tree is known by its fruits” so I would like to check the fruits, not someones theories or hypothesis that occultism is bad.
(I believe there are angels, and that there are supernatural powers, plus many other secrets in mother Nature to which access is not given just to anyone, but only to highly developed souls. Why? Because if access is given to us - the ordinary people to all those powers, we may use them to kill each other. If believing in all that makes one occultist, than I am an occultist. Jesus for example made out of 5 loafs of bread way much more to feed 5,000 people, He turned water into wine and etc..... IMO, He is one of the best occultists ever. Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)
Why occultism is bad for some (or most) churches? Thank you.
The Nazi’s were occultist. Thats all I have to say.
Um, God’s Word says its wrong. That’s all we need to know.
I think you posted to the wrong site.
This nonsense belongs on the Huffingtonpuffingtonpost.
Well, for one the Bible the Word of God says its wrong.
Ok, that’s the only reason you need.
The reason Jesus Christ could do those things you mentioned is because he is Our Great God and Saviour, not just a vain man...
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
It’s not. Don’t listen to the evangenlicals around here.
If you look deeper you will find all religions reflect the same basic concepts of accessing the divine and infinite.
I was astounded by the similarities in so-called ‘occult’ readings to the bible.
The difference is the use of religion for selfishness or for good.
The zot is definitely coming. The newbie has been here a very short time.
First, this is an old, old heresy called Gnosticism, which basically administers to gullible people's vanity -- 'hidden (occult) knowledge (gnosis)' is available only to the adepts. Of course, as St. Irenaeus pointed out back in the 2nd century, you wind up simply worshipping yourself. C.S. Lewis covered this appeal to vanity and its destructive results in an essay on "The Inner Ring", and also in That Hideous Strength, if you prefer fiction.
Second, you can't hijack Jesus for this as some sort of adept or advanced being. As C.S. Lewis also said, if you read what Jesus actually said, he is either the Son of God, the Devil of Hell, or insane. You can't hail him as some sort of advanced teacher or enlightened being -- as Lewis also said, He didn't intend to leave us that option.
Third, there most certainly are spiritual beings other than men and angels. The vast majority of them do not have your best interest at heart, and if you mess with them you will get burned. The whole New Age movement has opened the door to a lot of ignorant monkeying around with the unseen world. It's very dangerous and wrong, and serious people have always known that. That's why both the Bible and the Catholic Church are very strict about forbidding attempts to divine the future, work magic, contact the dead, etc.
Finally, all the occultists I have ever known are to varying degrees nutty as squirrel poop. I was around the fringes of the movement for years, I can even read Tarot cards and weave a pretty good patter while I'm doing it. But I don't do that any more because it's wrong, and dangerous.
Ah, back to spout some more falderall eh lwt? For someone who likes to cite his occultic masters so called talks about God I find this humorous if this statement wasn't so sick. What is bad? Very simply, churches repudiate it because God repudiates it. Read your bible, not your guru's lectures, you will learn a lot.
When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire [an ancient occult practice], or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination [detestable] to the LORD
Shall we talk about demonic possession. How about the sacrifice of humans on altars.
What is evil about it - pure evil deception for starters.
I believe there are angels, and that there are supernatural powers, plus many other secrets in mother Nature to which access is not given just to anyone, but only to highly developed souls.
Prime example of the deception. Not all of those supernatural 'powers' are benevolent. Contrary to your master's lectures, Jesus came to ALL people to reveal to them the Father - not just some of your select masters. "for God so loved the World. . ."
Jesus for example made out of 5 loafs of bread way much more to feed 5,000 people, He turned water into wine and etc..... IMO, He is one of the best occultists ever.
That is neither occultic or secret lwt. Here your dictionary theology lesson falls apart. As you've already pointed out - your occult is a secret knowledge and practices dealing with the supernatural or psychic phenomena, often for the purpose of obtaining personal power. You see none of that in Jesus' feeding the people.
Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)
Here is a lecture your master never made regarding Jesus' words -
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25* Behold, I have told you before.
26* Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
John 18:20* Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
Your master is one of these false Christs and false prophets - designing to deceive many. Jesus taught openly, not in the secret.
God condemned occultism in the OT with death. The NT church soundly rejected it. It is bad for all churches, regardless of the lies of your master.
Do I smell something?
A) Occultism IS wrong. The bible says so.
B) Its not just the 'envengenlicals' (I assume you mean evangelicals) that condemn occultism. Every Christian Church, from Baptist to Catholic to those guys that gather in the kitchen on Sunday morning, agree that occultism is evil and against the divine will of God.
Oh, one other thing lwt. Another lecture your master failed to teach you -
Mt 8:16* When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Mt 9:33* And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.
Mt 10:8* Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mr 1:39* And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.
Mr 3:15* And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
Lu 11:20* But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Yes lwt, these subtle spirits that your masters have looked to for wisdom have bound peoples lives, tormented them and their families. Yet you have to ask what is bad in occultism.
Jesus drove those demons out by the power of God, not some mystical incantation or secret knowledge.
The apostle Paul wrote -
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light ( for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth ) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Again, your masters hide the identity of the risen Christ because they cannot face God, but must skulk around the corners of darkness. Occult is one of the fruitless deeds of darkness and as you say - by their fruits you will know them.
Have you ever read the Bible? I am not sure how you could be be more wrong.
So believing in Angels makes you an occultist? I don’t care what watered down definition your favorite web-dictionary gives you, blending faith based Judaic-
Christianity with a word associated by any common man with Evil, is in itself ignorant at best, heresy at worse.
Believing in the things of God that are unseen, I will continue to use the word, Faith not occult.
If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is.
Are you Mormon ???
Is that why you seem think the occult is OK ????
Others have made good Biblical points, I’ll add one more.
Satan appealing to human pride (same thing that threw him out of Heaven faster than lightning,) to make them think they are ‘special’ and elite and separate with unique knowledge is the oldest trick in The Book:
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
"Why, He didn't share that knowledge with everyone else??? There are some serious reasons for that, and the answer is: - We are not ready.)
Share the knowledge?
You mean so you can become your own "wonder worker" and "wizard". Like without Christ? The question shows your whole approach is all wrong.
. Perhaps this will help.
" 8:9 There was therefore great joy in that city. Now there was a certain man named Simon who before had been a magician in that city, seducing the people of Samaria, giving out that he was some great one:
8:10 To whom they all gave ear, from the least to the greatest, saying: This man is the power of God, which is called great.
8:11 And they were attentive to him, because, for a long time, he had bewitched them with his magical practices.
8:12 But when they had believed Philip preaching of the kingdom of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
8:13 Then Simon himself believed also and, being baptized, he adhered to Philip. And being astonished, wondered to see the signs and exceeding great miracles which were done.
8:14 Now, when the apostles, who were in Jerusalem, had heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John.
8:15 Who, when they were come, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost.
8:16 For he was not as yet come upon any of them: but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
8:17 Then they laid their hands upon them: and they received the Holy Ghost.
8:18 And when Simon saw that, by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
8:19 Saying: Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I shall lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said to him:
8:20 Keep thy money to thyself, to perish with thee: because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
8:21 Thou hast no part nor lot in this matter. For thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
8:22 Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness: and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee
8:23 For I see thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.
8:24 Then Simon answering, said: Pray you for me to the Lord that none of these things which you have spoken may come upon me."
Now! What is the problem here in these passages and your question.
You want power not God. Your whole motivation is like having a hooker for the power of sex without true love.
It is about knowing the living God. Not about "power".
3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world: but that the world may be saved by him.
3:18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the judgment: Because the light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil.
3:20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved.
3:21 But he that doth truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest: because they are done in God.
That is Acts 8 in your New Testament bible.
John 3-16 was second passage.
“If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is. Man made theories or hypothesis don’t mean anything to me.”
This statement alone shows that you have very little grasp of logic or critical thinking. If you won’t accept “man made theories or hypothesis” (sic), then what do you expect us men to offer up as arguments? Are you expecting a fairy or angel to appear and tell you that occultism is bad?
I was just going to post something with same point - not even glorying in power truly given from God:
After Jesus sent out his disciples with Godly authority to perform miracles and drive out demons, heal - Jesus admonishes them to know the Source of their ability (not even their ability - they were just willing instruments) and mainly to only glory in their salvation:
17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Occult knowledge is knowledge that CANNOT stand up to the light of the truth.
That is why it is “hidden” knowledge.
This helps the purveyors of lies get their product taken more seriously.
I walk up to you and say “The stock of Company XYZ is going to go up 50% tomorrow” and walk off. You will put very little stock in this information.
However, if you overhear a conversation not intended for you (i.e. you are eavesdropping) and hear a person state “The stock of Company XYZ is going to go up 50% tomorrow”, you take it VERY seriously.
Occult info is always info you “should not have”, like the above. The Gnostics were the first Christians how got taken hook,line and sinker by such an easy deception. They lusted after Occult knowledge. It lead them to all debauchery.
Today we have the same sort of “secret” societies. Freemasonry is one build on “occult” BS.
Second tell-tale sign: posted and ran, never answering any of the replies.
Jesus operated out of the third heaven presence of God all other information is from the 2nd heaven which is the domain of satan.
“Neither Jesus nor his 12 disciples, nor their original followers quit being Jews. When Jesus was born it didn’t usher in a whole new religion (Paul and the Greeks did that). What Jesus professed is completely different from what Paul and the Greeks taught.”
Paul was Jewish thru and thru. The charge that he introduced Hellenism into Christianity was in vogue for some time. But more recent scholarship has put rubbish to that. See e.g. N.T. Wright, “What Paul Really Said.”
I agree that Greek notions did weasel their way into Church doctrines later. But not from Paul. Paul was a very well educated second temple Jewish Pharisee thoroughly acquainted with the scriptures. Most of his work was spent working through the implications of the Resurrection in light of the Jewish scriptures (as I’m sure you know, second temple Jews—excluding the Saducees—interpreted the scriptures as saying the Messiah and the resurrection of everyone would happen all at once. As Paul noted, only Jesus got resurrected. So the existing interpretation of scripture was clearly wrong and Paul worked thru the new interpretation to accomodate the fact of the Resurrection.)
“The man-altered scriptural translations and interpolations and politics of 2000 years have made christianity something that Jesus nor his 12 disciples would recognize or claim.”
The case that our current Bible is the result of alterations, interpolations, and bad translations of the new testament is really a bad case. Few serious new testament scholars will make it with a straight face (whether Christian or non-Christian scholars). The “Catholics altered the bible” argument is really nothing more than a pop-culture meme at this point. Here is why:
1. We have more than 26,000 existing copies of the new testament in at least ten different languages that survive from the ancient world. The various copies can each be traced to a chain of copies made from the originals. There are many chains with many branches. Mistakes or alterations in one chain are not made in other chains. So we can assemble the original words in the new testament with very high accuracy— greater than 99.9%. The 0.01% of the words that are not clear make no difference in doctrine.
2. In fact, the Bodmer and Beatty Papyri both date to before 200 A.D. and the vast bulk of the new testament is in them and accurately reproduced in today’s Bible. So all the sneaky alterations would have had to have been made by no more than 163 years after the Resurrection—not the imagined 2000 year conspiracy.
3. Finally, the early church fathers quoted from what is now the new testament extensively in their writings (much of which survives). Those were written from 90 A.D. to 200 A.D. We could reconstruct almost the entire new testament from just the writings of the early church fathers even if all the ancient copies were lost.
4. These are all documents that are reliably dated to pre-200 A.D. Thus, we know that the words in today’s Bible are the same words written by the original authors. So even if the Catholic Church had wanted to change things around, it couldn’t have because all those tens of thousands of copies were already out there.
If you are interested in learning about this, I would be happy to provide more references.
Good Point! Amen!
If there is something bad in occultism please show some evidence it is.
Are you Mormon ???
Is that why you seem think the occult is OK ????
That's what I was thinking.
How predictable and typically ignorant.
LOLOL! I'll have to remember that one.
Equating the Miracle Power of God to “magic” and the occult...
Stop me when the ignorant part comes up...
Why occultism is bad for some (or most) churches?
Why some trolls worship devils?
Why you post this? ZOT!
Hmmm. A late lament.
wow. Because its a worship of lies?