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Crystal Cathedral Prays For Miracle to Stop Sale
The Orange County Register ^ | 11/20/11 | Scott Martindale

Posted on 11/21/2011 6:27:15 AM PST by marshmallow

The bankrupt megachurch is to be sold to the Diocese of Orange.

GARDEN GROVE – Crystal Cathedral's head pastor spoke optimistically about the future of her iconic megachurch at Sunday morning services, telling a congregation of about 400 that it was not too late to ask God to intervene and stop the church's impending sale to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange.

Senior Pastor Sheila Schuller Coleman, the daughter of the church's founder, offered a prayer thanking God for "intentionally delaying" a miracle, and indicated that the bankrupt church would continue to pray and wait for God to reveal His final plans.

"Is a miracle delayed, denied?" Coleman asked repeatedly during the service, as congregants shouted "No!" from the pews.

"We have many reasons to believe that God's miracle will still come to pass," Coleman said, "and His glory will still shine all that much brighter."

On Thursday, a U.S. bankruptcy judge ruled that the Diocese of Orange would be able to purchase the 40-acre Crystal Cathedral campus for $57.5 million. In his decision, Bankruptcy Judge Robert Kwan in Santa Ana rejected a higher offer of $59 million from Chapman University in Orange, which was the other top contender for the Garden Grove property.

Under the diocese's plan, the ministry will be able to lease the core buildings – including the glass-walled sanctuary and its shimmering tower – for three years, at $100,000 a month during the first year and $150,000 for years two and three. They also will be able to lease back the Crystal Cathedral school building for $10,000 a month through summer 2013.

Church officials announced a day before Thursday's ruling that they were backing the diocese's offer, after previously saying on two different occasions that they would back Chapman's offer.

The bankruptcy process has strained already tense...........

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: crystalcathedral; megachurch; orangecounty; socal
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1 posted on 11/21/2011 6:27:17 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
telling a congregation of about 400

I wonder what their membership and attendance stats are.

2 posted on 11/21/2011 6:36:34 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: marshmallow

My only question is why does the Catholic church want to buy it anyway? Seems like a lot of money and if there is a strong Catholic community there now do they not already have church’s? Are they trying to consolidate? Sound like it is not a real good decision but I am not totally aware of all the factors.


3 posted on 11/21/2011 6:38:45 AM PST by jafojeffsurf (Return to the Constitution)
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To: marshmallow

So much for Schuller’s “Be Happy Attitudes” I guess?


4 posted on 11/21/2011 6:40:02 AM PST by arkady_renko (I want to believe.)
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To: Lee N. Field

400 would not look like much in this building.

5 posted on 11/21/2011 6:40:04 AM PST by Haiku Guy (We don't need to Occupy Wall Street... We need to Occupy K Street!)
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To: Haiku Guy

Looks like it would make a great conservatory.


6 posted on 11/21/2011 6:47:28 AM PST by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: marshmallow
Somehow this sort of thing never seems to happen to all the small frame and clapboard churches that are found all over my state of West Virginia.

They go on generation after generation with loyal families who support their church and pastors who are there because they love God, not the dollars and the celebrity.

If I ever were to become a Christian, it surely would be at one of those country churches rather than one of the showmanship edifices of the Schuller-Osteen variety.

7 posted on 11/21/2011 6:53:26 AM PST by Notary Sojac
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To: chrisser

It would make a great church if they just preached God’s Word.


8 posted on 11/21/2011 6:54:31 AM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles

Feel-good, man-centered Christianity has a short shelf life. 1 Thessalonians 5:12 ..be in the Lord.


9 posted on 11/21/2011 7:01:02 AM PST by Broker (Beware of Community Organizer in Chief!)
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To: marshmallow

One earthquake away from a big pile of shiny rubble.


10 posted on 11/21/2011 7:04:37 AM PST by JPG (The loons at OWS will soon be at each others throats.)
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To: Notary Sojac
If I ever were to become a Christian...

2 Corinthians 6:1 As God’s co-workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

11 posted on 11/21/2011 7:05:46 AM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: jafojeffsurf
My only question is why does the Catholic church want to buy it anyway?

The prosperous Orange County Archdiocese has been wanting to build a cathedral in the area for a long time and the iconic Crystal Cathedral apparently is a very good fit for them. It is a very beautiful church.

The real tragedy is the rift in the Schiller family that led up to this.

12 posted on 11/21/2011 7:07:56 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Lee N. Field
I wonder what their membership and attendance stats are.

Couple of factoids that might help answer that question:

Ministry Watch reports that the "Crystal Cathedral" can seat 2890, with 1000 additional seats/space for choir, ministry staff, etc. I think it's safe to say that the "congregation of about 400" mentioned in the article is an indication that membership has seriously declined.

A Businessweek article last week mentions that the "Hour Of Power" broadcast brings in 70% of the church's revenue, and conjectures that changing the locale of the broadcast (to the 1,200-seat St. Callistus Catholic church) would jeopardize the size of its television audience and further shrink the church.

13 posted on 11/21/2011 7:10:05 AM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: marshmallow
The name "Crystal Cathedral" has always annoyed me. Since the denomination has no bishops or archbishops, the name is a misnomer--sort of like Crispy Cream doughnuts, which are neither crispy nor creamy.

If the Catholics get the building, they will likely turn it into a real cathedral.

14 posted on 11/21/2011 7:11:51 AM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: marshmallow
Under the diocese's plan, the ministry will be able to lease the core buildings – including the glass-walled sanctuary and its shimmering tower

Well aren't they going to hold mass in that space on Sundays? It's not clear to me why they are buying this.

15 posted on 11/21/2011 7:14:58 AM PST by DManA
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To: mac_truck

The sad truth is...despite how beautiful the church may appear, you might as well have written ‘Ichabod’( Hebrew for “the glory of the Lord has departed”) above the door...if God’s glory was ever there at all.

The doctrine ‘preached’ there was not in line with God’s truth.


16 posted on 11/21/2011 7:16:57 AM PST by hoagy62 (The United States of America. Great idea...while it lasted.)
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To: marshmallow

This is a great example of how “prayer” has been perverted. God is not going to hand you a stack of cash to get you out of your financial troubles. He’s not going to stop the bank from foreclosing on your home. He’s not going to stop your elderly mother or father from dying. It sickens me when I hear people talk like that. It ain’t happening. If it did, Christians would all be millionaires and live forever on this earth.

God is not going to stop the sale of this monstrosity anymore than God was going to stop the foreclosure and sale of Jim Baker’s Christian amusement park (remember that?).

These people should be praying for God to help them get THROUGH hard times, not prevent hard times.


17 posted on 11/21/2011 7:29:30 AM PST by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: jafojeffsurf

The present Holy Family Cathedral in the city of Orange is a large parish church (Orange County has been separate from the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for only about 25 years). There are over 1 million people who claim to be Catholic in Orange County, and the diocese needed a larger cathedral.

I think there is a certain irony involved with this purchase, in that the Roman Catholic church is taking over an edifice constructed by a Calvinist (Robert Schuller is an ordained minister in the Reformed Church in America, one of the Dutch Calvinist sects). I’ve visited St. Pierre in Geneva, which was standing in the 16th Century when John Calvin turned into a protestant temple. Now we have the grandest temple of the Calvinist movement being transformed into a Roman Catholic cathedral. St. Francis de Sales would be proud.


18 posted on 11/21/2011 7:33:47 AM PST by nd76
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To: Lee N. Field

Sadly, their “god”: Norman Vincent Peal can not hear or help them because he is dead.


19 posted on 11/21/2011 7:35:35 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Lee N. Field

Sadly, their “god”: Norman Vincent Peal can not hear or help them because he is dead.


20 posted on 11/21/2011 7:35:37 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard
Again, I'm not a Christian and those who have followed my posts on FR know that well.

But it seems to me quite obvious that Christ's message was "Follow Me, and you will learn how meaningless worldly possessions really are".

The Schuller clan does not seem to have learned that lesson very well.

21 posted on 11/21/2011 7:37:01 AM PST by Notary Sojac
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To: Alex Murphy
Ministry Watch reports that the "Crystal Cathedral" can seat 2890, with 1000 additional seats/space for choir, ministry staff, etc. I think it's safe to say that the "congregation of about 400" mentioned in the article is an indication that membership has seriously declined.

Perhaps this is a members meeting. Actual attendance higher, official membership relatively low.

22 posted on 11/21/2011 7:43:28 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: JPG

They used this building in the “life after people” series, to show how it would errod, collapse, etc.

It really was one good earthquake away from a shiny pile. :-)


23 posted on 11/21/2011 7:48:28 AM PST by RikaStrom (Pray for Obama - Psalm 109:8 "Let his days be few; and let another take his place of leadership.")
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To: Notary Sojac; All

At least it is not being brought out by a Muslism group.


24 posted on 11/21/2011 7:59:10 AM PST by KevinDavis (Birthers are ignorant about the Constitution.)
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To: Notary Sojac

Many wholeheartedly agree with you about the “showmanship edifices.” Well said.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2801749/posts?page=24#24

http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files


25 posted on 11/21/2011 8:01:34 AM PST by onthelookout777
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To: Jmouse007
Norman Vincent Peale

And mentoring Peale, Ernest Holmes, founder of Religous Science. Influenced by Peale, in out generation, Rick Warren.

Interesting to contemplate the connections.

26 posted on 11/21/2011 8:05:51 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: hecticskeptic

Paulinity.


27 posted on 11/21/2011 8:06:02 AM PST by onedoug (lf)
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To: DManA

Shared-use facilities.

The Hour of Power is filmed on Saturday evenings.

Mind you, it’s slightly odd for a cathedral to not have Saturday-evening masses.


28 posted on 11/21/2011 8:07:15 AM PST by dangus
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To: jafojeffsurf
Yeah, I'm Catholic and it seems to me the university could make better use of this monstrosity.

We (Catholics) would be better off building a thousand little chapels.

29 posted on 11/21/2011 8:13:32 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture (Could be worst in 40 years))
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To: jafojeffsurf

Catholics do need a bigger cathedral for the diocese.

However, I’m praying for the deal not to go through, too! The building, IMHO, is a monster that is completely neutral at best and ugly at worst, will have no space for traditional Catholic art and devotional items, and is basically just an auditorium for hearing a speech. It was designed to be a stage for a preacher, not to accomodate an altar for the mass.

The current bishop is a raving liberal who is about to retire and this was his parting gesture. There was considerable opposition to this deal in his diocese. It would also be possible to build a larger cathedral for less, and that’s another sound reason for opposition.

But it’s all about the bishop using his last chance to impose his AmChurch vision on the diocese.


30 posted on 11/21/2011 8:24:12 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

Dominus vobiscum, y’all!

Yep, us mackerel snappin’ papists are gonna move right into the newly renamed St. Peter’s Crystal Catholic Church with our Friday fish fries ‘n’ bingo games, singing “Immaculate Mary” and “Hail Holy Queen”!

Sic gloria Deo!

;^)


31 posted on 11/21/2011 8:48:21 AM PST by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: nd76; Lee N. Field
Now we have the grandest temple of the Calvinist movement being transformed into a Roman Catholic cathedral. St. Francis de Sales would be proud.

If Catholics believe the Crystal Cathedral is a Calvinist temple, I've got some additional properties that I'd like to sell them!

32 posted on 11/21/2011 8:51:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: Lee N. Field

Excellent job “connecting the dots”. “pastor” Rick Warren is a neophite of Schuller and Peal. Warrenc just repackaged thier ungodly, Satanic shuck and jive for a new generation.


33 posted on 11/21/2011 9:17:02 AM PST by Jmouse007 (Lord deliver us from evil and from those perpetuating it, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: jafojeffsurf
The Catholic’s are going to make it a Spanish speaking only Sanctuary.

/s

34 posted on 11/21/2011 9:20:25 AM PST by Osage Orange (Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum)
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To: marshmallow
We were in the Crystal Cathedral one evening a few years ago to watch my daughter sing a beautiful solo. One of the greeters came up to us and invited us come back for worship on Sunday. He told us that the reason he attended is the wonderful pipe organ.... the pipe organ.

We decided to content ourselves with worshiping God at our little Baptist Church of 100 people who attend so they can worship God, be challenged to walk with Him and be equipped to share the gospel with others.

We don't have a pipe organ.

35 posted on 11/21/2011 9:53:05 AM PST by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: livius
It was designed to be a stage for a preacher, not to accomodate an altar for the mass.

Yes indeed. They would have to do quite a bit of sanctuary renovation to actually make it into a proper Catholic church -- neither the organ nor the choir belong behind the altar.

It would also be possible to build a larger cathedral for less

And then they could even end up with something that looks like a Catholic church ... !!


36 posted on 11/21/2011 10:31:51 AM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: Campion

Probably the whole point was NOT to have something that looks like a Catholic church!

IIRC, the very liberal former Bishop of Oakland (CA) did something like this just before he retired...built a monstrosity that will afflict the diocese for decades to come. I think it’s just one final, spiteful parting gesture, because they know that their fun is over and orthodoxy is coming back.


37 posted on 11/21/2011 1:17:07 PM PST by livius
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To: livius

But than again, it could be worse, remember that Cathedral for Los Angeles? It looks like a box store.


38 posted on 11/21/2011 2:41:25 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Jmouse007
Sadly, their “god”: Norman Vincent Peal can not hear or help them because he is dead.

Well called.

39 posted on 11/21/2011 6:32:14 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: livius

My home cathedral, would be viewed by very traditional Roman Catholics as being too modern. But this cathedral rose from the ashes of the gothic original which was destroyed by fire back in the 1950’s. Here is the website:

http://www.cathedralofsaintjoseph.com/

There is a section on the website about St. Joseph’s history.


40 posted on 11/22/2011 3:08:23 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: livius

Read that the cathedral in Oakland looks like the inside of a washer machine? Wow.


41 posted on 11/22/2011 3:15:54 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: livius

Is this the cathedral in question?

http://www.ctlcathedral.org/


42 posted on 11/22/2011 3:18:53 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: marshmallow

Well this article should come as NO suprise:

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/inquiries-and-interviews/detail/articolo/architettura-architecture-arquitectura-10121/


43 posted on 11/22/2011 3:22:08 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

Yes. Actually, it’s the cathedral in San Fran that looks like a washing machine agitator...but that was built a long time ago, back in the 1970s, which was a true low point for church architecture. And the SF cathedral was built because the old one burned down, not just to “make a statement.”


44 posted on 11/22/2011 8:19:38 AM PST by livius
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To: livius

Oh okay, did not know that, but then again, it does not suprise me that really weird church design would appear in San Fran as well.


45 posted on 11/22/2011 8:45:16 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: marshmallow; DocRock; del4hope; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; jude24; Ottofire; fishtank; ..
YBPDLN PL Ping The YBPDLNPL is generally published infrequently, but based on the exploits of the megachurch pastors posts can spike for a period of time. If you would like on or off of this list please FReepmail me.
46 posted on 11/22/2011 8:55:45 AM PST by Gamecock (I am so thankful for [the] active obedience of Christ. No hope without it. JGM)
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To: Gamecock

They should have taken more love offerings for the Windex fund...


47 posted on 11/22/2011 9:59:54 AM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("Go now. Run along and tell your Xerxes that he faces Free Men here...not slaves.")
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To: Jmouse007
Excellent job “connecting the dots”. “pastor” Rick Warren is a neophite of Schuller and Peal. Warrenc just repackaged thier ungodly, Satanic shuck and jive for a new generation.

Not my work. I've read that elsewhere on the Interwebz.

It's not difficult to show the connections with a quick click through Wikipedia.

What we have here does not demonstrate necessarily "jedi-padawan" master & disciple relationships. What would be very interesting, if one had the time and money*, would be to do the research and find out exactly how much influence there really is. And, to take it back a generation further than Ernest Holmes, back to the New Thought and the Mind Science groups, and up from them to see what else is related.

How about this, from Wikipedia:

"The New Thought movement is a spiritually-focused or philosophical interpretation of New Thought beliefs. Started in the early 19th century, today the movement consists of a loosely allied group of religious denominations, secular membership organizations, authors, philosophers, and individuals who share a set of beliefs concerning metaphysics, positive thinking, the law of attraction, healing, life force, creative visualization, and personal power."

Sound familiar?

What happened, back in the U.S. northeast in the first half of the 19th century, that it was the fountainhead of so much weirdness?

*PhD-able material for somebody. To do so would require more tolerance for reading spiritual poison than I have.

48 posted on 11/22/2011 4:23:48 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
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To: nd76
an edifice constructed by a Calvinist (Robert Schuller is an ordained minister in the Reformed Church in America, one of the Dutch Calvinist sects).

RCA has Calvinist roots, but Schuller, theologically, is not a Calvinist.

49 posted on 11/22/2011 4:52:02 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Notary Sojac

You may not be a Christian but you seem to understand Christ’s message better than many self professing “Christians”......


50 posted on 11/22/2011 5:01:37 PM PST by Kimmers (Pray more and shoot straight.........)
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