Posted on 11/21/2011 12:43:59 PM PST by Former Fetus
****Young’s Literal Translation:[Acts 13:42]..... the nations were calling upon them that on the next sabbath these sayings may be spoken to them,***
Strongs: 3342 (next)intervening, betwixt, between, next.
VINE’S: Signifies BETWEEN, “next”,in ACTS 13:42. See BETWEEN.
In the midst, or between. In ACTS 13:42 the AV margin has “the week between,” the LITERAL reading.
Blue Letter Bible lexicon: Between, the next, the mean (while).
LUKE 18:12 I fast twice in the week (sabbath).
The Companion Bible appendix showed the fast days in the synagogue, Monday and Thursday.
STRONGS; 4521=week and sabbath.
VINE’S: Sabbath, in the singular “twice in the week,”
lit.”twice of the sabbath,” i.e. twice in the days after the sabbath.
Blue letter bible lexicon.(Strong’s and Thayer) “I fast twice in the week...”
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
b) a single sabbath, sabbath day
2) seven days, a week.
For the last six hundred years all the Greek bible translators were wrong? I don’t think so! The most well respected Greek dictionaries and lexicons do not stand with you or the SDAs!
****I would be too if I were you. After all, your the genius who thinks the Sabbath day as used in the context of all those verses means something other than....... the Sabbath day, which is exactly what it’s referring to.***
Flattery will get you no where. The The Greek dictionaries, lexicons and other standard works by REAL GREEK TRANSLATORS do not stand with you.
***Spin and twist and turn the plain meaning and context of the word “Sabbath” when it clearly means a Sabbath day. Try to make it mean something else.***
Go to any reputable standard works Greek Lexicon or concordance and be blown away! They do not stand with you.
>>>Go to any reputable standard works Greek Lexicon or concordance and be blown away! They do not stand with you.>>>
Go to any credible Bible scholar and commentary and then use common sense. Your twisting and turning of the word “Sabbath” as used in context of the verses you cited is laughable.
Even Rome’s challenge scoffs at using any other meaning but a Sabbath day , a literal 24 hour sabbath day in those contexts.
You are dreaming.
Dr. Samuele Bacchiochi response in a debate about the Sabbath and Matthew 28:1 used by some to try and show the Sabbath was changed to Sunday:
Dr. Bacchiocchi responds to Dale Ratzlaff about his book “Sabbath in Crisis”:
You are correct in saying that I threw your manuscript in the waste basket after reading the first dozen of pages. I did the same with the booklet by Harold Camping entitled Sunday-The Sabbath? after reading the first 8 pages. I could not go beyond page 8 where Camping interprets the temporal statement: “In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week” (Mat 28:1) as being a theological statement indicating the termination of the observance of the Sabbath when Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week. Such a senseless interpretation was enough to qualify the book for the trash.”
Dr. Samuele Bacchiochi, Phd, Gregorian Pontifical University, Vatican.
http://true.faithweb.com/debate/Debate10.htm
“Help, anybody?”
The book of Hebrews.
God cares about one thing above all other things.
Your personal response to Jesus Christ.
You need to remember that those SDA’s are sinners too.
Don’t let them persuade anyone that they are not.
It only takes one sin to qualify for hell.
There is only one sin that disqualifies you from heaven.
When we let the Bible interpret itself instead of spinning and twisting verses such as Matthew 28:1:
“Matt 28:1 reads, “After the Sabbath [which
concluded with sunset on Saturday evening],
as the first day of the week began to dawn. . . ,”
or “at sunrise” (Mark 14:1, NKJV). Two less
common German Bibles translate Matt 28:1
with “on Sabbath evening” instead of “after the
Sabbath.” The Greek word opse, which Matthew
uses only here, is an adverb which can
mean “after a long time, late, late in the day,
at even,” or it can be used as a preposition
with a genitive meaning “after” as in Matt 28:1
(Liddell and Scott, Greek Lexicon, s.v. opse).
In such cases, where more than one translation
is possible, other texts must determine
which meaning should be adopted. In this
case, Mark 16:1, 2 clearly state that the Sabbath
was past when the women went to buy
spices. Therefore, the meaning “after the Sabbath
should be adopted for Matt 28:1.”
Go to other verses when in doubt. Mark 16 describes the same event at Matthew 28:1.
More of letting the Bible interpret itself instead of twisting and spinning for your own purposes. Again, Matthew 28:1 as your example: Now you have to argue with Mark, John, and Luke. Case closed:
Matthew 28:1
Matthew 28:1 provides additional proof of two Sabbaths occurring that week. However, the Bible’s translators, confused by the Greek wording of this verse, have consistently mistranslated it. Matthew writes, “Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn . . . .” The wording of the original text, though, reads, “after the Sabbaths”—plural!
Richard T. Ritenbaugh
‘After Three Days’
Matthew 28:1
By comparing these four accounts (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1), it is evident that Mary Magdalene and the other women arrived at the tomb early in the morning on Sunday morning, while it was still dark. When they arrived, they saw that the stone had already been rolled back. None of these verses specify when Christ arose from the dead, but we do know that He left the tomb before the women arrived. It is plain that the women arrived early in the morning on the first day of the week, and first saw the resurrected Christ at that time. But these accounts do not say that was when Christ arose.
Matthew 28:1 and Mark 16:1-2 also reiterate that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week.
***Your twisting and turning of the word “Sabbath” as used in context of the verses you cited is laughable.***
I’m not twisting anything. I am merely showing what REAL GREEK SCHOLARS have to say about the issue by referring to their works.
Got a problem? Take it up with 600 years of real Greek scholarship and real translators, not someone who had a dream about the throne of God and a lit up commandment.
Nestles Greek Text: Matt 28:1...But late of (the) sabbaths, at the dawning on toward one of the sabbaths,=THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, came Mary the Magdaline....
Geneva Bible note on Matt 28:1
At the going out of the Sabbath, that is, about daybreak after the Romans count, which reckon the natural day from the sun rising to the next sun rising; and not as the Hebrews, which count from evening to evening.
When the morning of the first day after the Sabbath beganne to dawne: and that first day is the same, which we now call Sunday, or the Lords day.
Again, Thayer, Vine’s and Strongs along with the Companion Bible notes, Geneva, KJV ( English Cambridge and Oxford) and others does not stand with you. Not even the RV or NASB.
>>>I’m not twisting anything. I am merely showing what REAL GREEK SCHOLARS have to say about the issue by referring to their works.
Got a problem? Take it up with 600 years of real Greek scholarship and real translators, not someone who had a dream about the throne of God and a lit up commandment.>>>
Yeah, you are twisting and turning a text that the Greek is clear about in 3 other places describing the SAME event. A text simply describing a temporal event and you want to make a theological case out of it.
The greek does say Plural sabbaths in Matthew 28:1. Big deal. That don’t change the law of God in STONE , the Sabbath in STONE, with Adultery in STONE, with Lying in STONE, with stealing in STONE, etc....any more than a simple meal does in Acts. 20.
Keep dreaming. Even Catholic scholars laugh at such a notion. Read Rome’s Challenge and you might learn something. Here....they mock you and all your texts: I love this what the Catholic scholars say about those who think Acts 20 changes the Sabbath to Sunday.....they laugh at you:
Once more, the Biblical apologists for the change of day call our attention to the Acts, chapter 20, verses 6 and 7; “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread.” etc. To all appearances the above text should furnish some consolation to our disgruntled Biblical friends, but being a Marplot, we cannot allow them even this crumb of comfort. We reply by the axiom: “Quod probat nimis, probat nihil”—”What proves too much, proves nothing.” Let us call attention to the same, Acts 2:46; “And they, continuing daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,” etc. Who does not see at a glance that the text produced to prove the exclusive prerogative of Sunday, vanishes into thin air—an ignis fatuus—when placed in juxtaposition with the 46th verse of the same chapter? What the Biblical Christian claims by this text for Sunday alone the same authority, St. Luke, informs us was common to every day of the week; “and they, continuing daily in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house.”
I’ll post what they say about 1 Corinthians 16:1 next. It’s even better how they destroy your case. Even Sabbath keepers like me couldn’t have a better analysis. http://www.romeschallenge.com/
And here’s what Rome’s Challenge says to those who think 1 Corinthians 16:1 is proof the Sabbath is changed to Sunday. Gotta love this guy. He’s good makes you look like the fool you are:
Again, from Rome’s Challenge, why do Protestants keep Sunday:
“One text more presents itself, apparently leaning toward a substitution of Sunday for Saturday. It is taken from St. Paul, I Cor. 16:1,2; “Now concerning the collection for the saints.” “On the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store,” etc. Presuming that the request of St. Paul had been strictly attended to, let us call attention to what had been done each Saturday during the Saviour’s life and continued for thirty years after, as the book of Acts informs us.
The followers of the Master met “every Sabbath” to hear the word of God; the scriptures were read “every Sabbath day.” “And Paul, as his manner was to reason in the synagogue every Sabbath, interposing the name of the Lord Jesus,” etc. Acts 18:4. What more absurd conclusion than to infer that reading of the Scriptures, prayer, exhortation and preaching, which formed the routine duties of every Saturday, as has been abundantly proved, were overslaughed by a request to take up a collection on another day of the week?”
He's written a record for posterity so we can see exactly what God did in the past, just as he did with Paul who you don't seem to trust as much.
And Jesus said the Holy Spirit would also be given as a Counselor to believers to guide them going forward as well because God knows times will be changing until the end and we'll need his guidance to navigate those times.
***Yeah, you are twisting and turning a text that the Greek is clear about in 3 other places describing the SAME event.***
***any more than a simple meal does in Acts. 20.***
More about that “simple meal” here...
I’m not twisting anything. Simply pick up a copy of Nestles Greek Text or Englishman’s or even the Concordant unical text and read it.
Then open a commentary by REAL GREEK SCHOLARS and be informed.
The ones I use are Vines, Thayer’s and Strongs and Vincent’s. They have never led me astray yet.
If anyone is twisting, show me from the above authors.
***That don’t change the law of God in STONE , the Sabbath in STONE, with Adultery in STONE, with Lying in STONE, with stealing in STONE, etc....any more than a simple meal does in Acts. 20.***
The LAW was shattered when the people rose up to play. Moses had to carve a new set. They were then placed in a coffin: STRONGS (727) ARK (727). Always an “in your face” that the people had destroyed the law and it was dead.
Now: LUKE 18:12 I fast twice in the week= GR:I fast twice in the sabbath.
Footnote in the RV on this, Mondays and thursdays. Definitly not sabbath’s day fast, just as others GREEK scholars have said.
And ACTS...Paul met where the Jews gathered which was on the Sabbath day to open their scriptures to them.
He ALSO met during the week between the sabbaths. in ACTS 18:42 with the gentiles, as the word next is metaxu, STRONGS (3342) Between, intervening, next, ajoining.
And I have shown how the words, “first of the sabbaths” really means the first day of the week just as the translators said.
You might check VINCENT’S WORD STUDIES for this one.
>>>The LAW was shattered when the people rose up to play.>>>
Yeah, the LAW is shattered until somebody steals your stuff, or sleeps with your wife, or lies to you, or kills your parents or you......then suddenly the law is important.
God isn’t mocked by your nonsense. It’s not the “law” you are worried about. It’s just the Sabbath. The other 9 commandments aren’t shattered and you’ll be the first to say so.
But You want to play Picky choosey with the ten commandments. God ain’t mocked.
One last thing: The first of the sabbaths...
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=2022
According to R.C.H. Lenski, since “[t]he Jews had no names for the weekdays,” they “designated them with reference to their Sabbath” (1943, p. 1148). Thus, mia ton sabbaton means “the first (day) with reference to the Sabbath,” i.e., the first (day) following the Sabbath (Lenski, p. 1148), or, as we would say in 21st century English, “the first day of the week.”
After spending years examining Jewish writings in the Babylonian Talmud, Hebraist John Lightfoot wrote A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica, in which he expounded upon the Hebrew method of counting the days of the week. He noted: “The Jews reckon the days of the week thus; One day (or the first day) of the sabbath: two (or the second day) of the sabbath;” etc. (1859, 2:375, emp. in orig.).
Lightfoot then quoted from two different Talmud tractates. Maccoth alludes to those who testify on “the first of the sabbath” about an individual who stole an ox. Judgment was then passed the following day—“on the second day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375, emp. in orig.; Maccoth, Chapter 1).
Bava Kama describes ten enactments ordained by a man named Ezra, including the public reading of the law “on the second and fifth days of the sabbath,” and the washing of clothes “on the fifth day of the sabbath” (Lightfoot, 2:375; Bava Kama, Chapter 7). In Michael Rodkinson’s 1918 translation of Maccoth and Bava Kama, he accurately translated “the second day of the sabbath” as Monday, “the fifth day of the sabbath” as Thursday, and “the first of the sabbath” as Sunday.
>>>>One last thing: The first of the sabbaths...>>>
Yeah, except Mark, Luke, and John all describe the same event and they are all talking about the end of the sabbath day and beginning of the first day.
Letting the Bible interpret itself is pretty easy.
Otherwise you end up looking really foolish making theological cases out of simple events. That’s why Rome’s challenge mocks your futile attempts. Read it and learn something.
http://www.romeschallenge.com/
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