[paladinan]

Mary being the second Eve has the same problem. God did not pass judgment when Eve sinned. It was when Adam sinned.

Well... I'm not sure how you could maintain that, given that God specifically itemised the consequences of her sin (pain/suffering during child-birth, etc.); if only Adam was to blame, then why did she get punished at all? No... both sinned, and both were in need of redemption; both sexes participated in the fall; thus, God saw fit to incorporate both sexes in the redemption.

There was no need for a second Eve, only a second Adam.

If one pushes the point, there was no absolute "need" for a "second Adam", either; God could have redeemed us without becoming incarnate (though it would have made a hash of the entire meaning of our lives). Rather, God freely chose to use both sexes to participate in the redemption of what both sexes helped to destroy. God does not save us in spite of ourselves; He does so only with and through our COOPERATION with His grace... without exception.

[Bobsvainbabblings]

Mary being the second Eve has the same problem. God did not pass judgment when Eve sinned. It was when Adam sinned.

Well... I'm not sure how you could maintain that, given that God specifically itemized the consequences of her sin (pain/suffering during child-birth, etc.); if only Adam was to blame, then why did she get punished at all? No... both sinned, and both were in need of redemption; both sexes participated in the fall; thus, God saw fit to incorporate both sexes in the redemption.

God punished Eve but it did not include the fall. That came when, Adam sinned.              

Lets look what God said to Adam.

Genesis 3:17-24

New King James Version (NKJV)

 

¹⁷ Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
      “ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
      In toil you shall eat of it
      All the days of your life.

 ¹⁸ Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
      And you shall eat the herb of the field.

 ¹⁹ In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
      Till you return to the ground,
      For out of it you were taken;
      For dust you are,
      And to dust you shall return.”
²⁰ And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
²¹ Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
²² Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— ²³ therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. ²⁴ So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Adam's sin got him and us chased out of the garden of Eden and the chance to eat of the tree of life, not Eve's.

There was no need for a second Eve, only a second Adam.

If one pushes the point, there was no absolute "need" for a "second Adam", either; God could have redeemed us without becoming incarnate (though it would have made a hash of the entire meaning of our lives). Rather, God freely chose to use both sexes to participate in the redemption of what both sexes helped to destroy. God does not save us in spite of ourselves; He does so only with and through our COOPERATION with His grace... without exception.

What you say is true but it is not what God choose to do. He choose to give us a second Adam.

May God lead us all to His truths, BVB
 

Mary being the second Eve has the same problem. God did not pass judgment when Eve sinned. It was when Adam sinned.

Well... I'm not sure how you could maintain that, given that God specifically itemized the consequences of her sin (pain/suffering during child-birth, etc.); if only Adam was to blame, then why did she get punished at all? No... both sinned, and both were in need of redemption; both sexes participated in the fall; thus, God saw fit to incorporate both sexes in the redemption.

God punished Eve but it did not include the fall. That came when, Adam sinned.              

Lets look what God said to Adam.

Genesis 3:17-24

New King James Version (NKJV)

 

¹⁷ Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
      “ Cursed is the ground for your sake;
      In toil you shall eat of it
      All the days of your life.

 ¹⁸ Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
      And you shall eat the herb of the field.

 ¹⁹ In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
      Till you return to the ground,
      For out of it you were taken;
      For dust you are,
      And to dust you shall return.”
²⁰ And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
²¹ Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
²² Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— ²³ therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. ²⁴ So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Adam's sin got him and us chased out of the garden of Eden and the chance to eat of the tree of life, not Eve's.

There was no need for a second Eve, only a second Adam.

If one pushes the point, there was no absolute "need" for a "second Adam", either; God could have redeemed us without becoming incarnate (though it would have made a hash of the entire meaning of our lives). Rather, God freely chose to use both sexes to participate in the redemption of what both sexes helped to destroy. God does not save us in spite of ourselves; He does so only with and through our COOPERATION with His grace... without exception.

What you say is true but it is not what God choose to do. He choose to give us a second Adam.

May God lead us all to His truths, BVB