JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH

EWTN ^ | Dr. William Marshner

[ScottfromNJ]

“You are jousting with windmills my friend because the scripture verse you cite don’t make your case.”

Did you even read them? Doubtful. You continue to lack an understanding of the different administrations and as a result, more often than not cite scriptures that don’t pertain to the Grace Administration, and take the ones that do out of context. Suggested start, the book of Acts.

Ephesians 3:2:

Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you.

“Therefore, brethren,be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble”

Again, salvation is not in question here. If we obey God we won’t stumble.

“for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you”

yep, Heavenly rewards.

Research the 5 crowns of righteousness.

[HarleyD]

Another related verse:

Gen 6:5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The condition of our hearts are evil continually. So whatever proceeds from our heart is evil. God looks upon us to overcome our sinfulness to help us create good works. Thus, any good works that we might have comes from God-not us. We only believe that we spawn them because, yes, that is the thoughts of our hearts.

[Iscool]

Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:17

Still trying to fight scripture with scripture...

Why is it you never post Eph. 2:8,9??? Not in the Catholic catechism???

[rzman21]

You cite the scriptures, but you show that you don’t understand them apart from proof texting.

Yes I will fight erroneous interpretations of scripture with other scriptures.

2 Peter 3:15-16

[Iscool]

Eternal security is a lie for the spiritually lazy.

You already told us you didn't attain a personal relationship with Jesus when you got wet...So that explains your secular understanding of scripture...

The Apostle John says you are flat out wrong...So when you call us a liar, you call the Apostle John a liar as well as Jesus...John got his information from Jesus...

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Now, is that verse over your head??? Or you just don't believe it??? Do you need it interpreted for you???

Or do you know it's true and are just handling the word of God deceitfully???

Or perhaps you are just plain 'lost'...

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Iscool]

For we are laborers together(synergos) with God: you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:9

Synergos??? Does that make you feel important to throw a Greek word in there...A little more intellectual???

Oh, by the way...It's not synergos...The correct word is:

συνεργός
sunergos
soon-er-gos'...

[Iscool]

The clear meaning of scripture is lost on Catholics. Satan has to diminish the work of Christ to pull more souls with him to destruction.

They have a secular understanding of scripture...

[Iscool]

I think not.

Glad you said it so I don't have to...

It’s not done. The race ends when you die, so I guess you believe that you can be an insufferable evil human being and get out of jail free because you profess Jesus to be your Lord and savior.

There is no race for salvation...Paul wasn't racing for salvation...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you as well as the rest of us are insufferable human beings, in the sight of God...

But no, we won't get out of jail free because we won't be in jail...But we will stay out of Hell for free...Well, it did cost but it was Jesus who paid...

We are the children of God...It's already a done deal...That's settled...

[Iscool]

You can cherry pick Bible verses all you like. But there is no such thing as a “clear meaning of scripture.”

HaHaHaHaHa...Did God teach you that or did Satan???

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

But yet you post scripture as tho the meaning is clear...(so go figure)...

Regardless, the verse you posted is very clear, but yet somehow you bumble that all up...

Paul's letters contain SOME THINGS (that means a few) that are hard to understand...
BY WHOM???
By ignorant and unstable people...

That's pretty simple, clear and plain scripture...

Interestingly tho, you classify yourself with that group of the ignorant and unstable since you claim you can't understand Paul's scripture...But you make the mistake of assuming we are all ignorant and unstable like you claim you are...

Where you apparently miss the boat is that you don't seem to realize that an unsaved person can't make hide nor hair of the scriptures...But saved persons do not have that handicap...

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You can't get it with a secular understanding of scripture...

[Iscool]

The Protestant Reformers, however, impatient with metaphysics (secular philosophy), preferred not to cope with such an entity and denied its existence.(5) To them it seemed simpler to say that grace is something wholly in God, namely, His favor towards us. But then, if grace is not something real in man, our “justification” can no longer be conceived as a real change in us; it will have to become a sheer declaration on God’s part, e.g. a declaration that, thanks to the work of Christ, He will henceforth consider us as just, even though we remain inwardly the sinners we always were.

That's exactly what the scriptures teach...Why would Christians mess with secular philosophy???

Now watch what happens to our own act of faith: it ceases to be the foundational act of an interior renewal and becomes a mere requirement, devoid of any salvific power in its own right, which God arbitrarily sets as the condition on which He will declare us just.

Faith is not an act...Faith is NOT an interior renewal...The 'New Birth' is the interior renewal...

It's clear your religion has no idea of what grace nor justification is...

Whereupon, watch what happens to our good works: they cease to be the vital acts wherein an ontologically real “new life” consists and manifests itself; they become mere human responses to divine mercy—nice, but totally irrelevant to our justification—or else they become zombie-like motions produced in us by irresistible divine impulses, whereby God exhibits His glory in His elect.

Now you're just making stuff up...

We must show that St. Paul’s real position is far closer to that of Trent than to that of Luther.

That won't happen in your lifetime, or God's...

[rzman21]

Again, faith and reason both come from God.

It seems that your incarnation of Christianity has more in common with Islam, which rejects human to the point of denying the laws of physics and the role of reason in interpreting the “holy book.”

Evangelicalism rejects reason, mistrusts scientific inquiry, and the role of human reason in understanding divine revelation.

So from that perspective both religions are quite similar.

Faith is not an act...Faith is NOT an interior renewal...The ‘New Birth’ is the interior renewal...
>>Once again, we have the private interpretation of one man. Philosophy always precedes theological assumptions.

That was true of the Jews in the 1st century, and that was true of the Protestant Reformers who reinterpreted the Bible in the light of late medieval nominalism. Protestantism’s understanding of grace has as much to do with philosophy as it does with the Bible.

Anti-Catholicism is the modus operendi of Protestant biblical exegesis. The Church Fathers and the Roman Church teach X, so “Bible believers” need to teach Y.

Faith and reason are inseparable.

The mind of the prudent acquires knowledge, And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge. Proverbs 18:15

[ScottfromNJ]

“Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:17 still trying to fight scripture with scripture”

James of course is written to the 12 tribes of Israel, from what I understand they accepted Christ but are very zealous towards the old law by their own choosing. So being justified “right with God” from their standpoint means faith and works, and if we’re not obeying God and doing Godly works then yes, it means our faith is dead/dormant and we’re not getting the benefits and are subject to the consequences. But salvation for those who believe is not in question.

[wmfights]

Our works stem not from ourselves but from the Holy Spirit. I suspect that the things we happen to think are really nice things to do aren't works of God at all; while those things we do without even consciously thinking about it are.

Scripture leaves no doubt who is guiding the works of believers.

Phil. 2:13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Eph. 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

It is so clear as you study the Scriptures that institutional "orthodoxy" has turned away from Scripture in order to empower itself and make believers dependent upon it. In the process they have instituted heresy in the place of Truth. The idea that your works contribute to your salvation is almost as bad as kneeling before idols, maybe worse.

[MarkBsnr]

Forget about the language. What about the understanding of Hellenistic Judaism? You can’t remove a language from the culture that gave it birth without losing the context.

Excellent point. Hellenistic Judaism really different from the rabbinical Judaism which evolved later.

[Judith Anne]

It is so clear as you study the Scriptures that institutional "orthodoxy" has turned away from Scripture in order to empower itself and make believers dependent upon it.

What constitutes "institutional orthodoxy"? Are you talking about the Catholic and EO churches?

In the process they have instituted heresy in the place of Truth. The idea that your works contribute to your salvation

Once again, it looks as though you are pointing to the Catholic Church. FYI, no Catholic believes that works contribute to salvation, just in case that is what you are getting at.

is almost as bad as kneeling before idols, maybe worse.

Who kneels before idols? Is this another canard about Mary worship?

[Iscool]

Once again, it looks as though you are pointing to the Catholic Church. FYI, no Catholic believes that works contribute to salvation, just in case that is what you are getting at.

So then it's faith 'alone' that gets you salvation???

[metmom]

Once again, it looks as though you are pointing to the Catholic Church. FYI, no Catholic believes that works contribute to salvation, just in case that is what you are getting at.

OK. Then they're going to stop quoting James 2, right?

[wmfights]

FYI, no Catholic believes that works contribute to salvation, just in case that is what you are getting at.

Check your church laws that were established at Trent.

Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

A couple more laws that you might want to consider:

Canon 19. If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel, that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor forbidden, but free; or that the ten commandments in no way pertain to Christians, let him be anathema.

Canon 24. If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 27. If anyone says that there is no mortal sin except that of unbelief, or that grace once received is not lost through any other sin however grievous and enormous except by that of unbelief, let him be anathema.

Obviously the Bible being translated into the vernacular and disseminated among believers created a lot of problems for the RCC.

[Quix]

Hmmmmmm

Is it that every other day they all believe works are necessary and alternate days not necessary?

Or is it every other FR RC believes works are necessary and even numbered ones don’t???

Very puzzling.

Unless it’s the usual talking out of all sides of their rosaries, mouths, frothing fingers . . .

or their chronic RELIGIOUS DUTIES OF OBLIGATION

—chronic habitual flip-flopping.

Cue fitting Stations of the White Hanky.

[Judith Anne]

I note that in your reply to me, you pinged a gtoup of people that I do not care to discuss anything with. So, I’ll just thank you for the courtesy of your reply, pray that God blesses you, and go to a different thread.