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To: rzman21
It comes down to living the life not just saying the life only. I think more people are lost because of this cheap grace interpretion.

I know a man I worked with was going with someone else's wife and was a player to women in Christian coffee house events. He would quote scripture about how he was already forgiven while openly admitting this all because of how screwy this view can go. He knew scripture too.

Of Course not all believe this but when you emphasize you are already forgiven for life and tell people you can read it for yourself. You will have these types. Notice if they tell you where they worship? There is a form of this by a rare few here. To think you have to be ashamed on where you go to church. They willingly mock a church but never will tell you where they go. Something is very wrong.

P.S. Not to be unfair. I do know people who believe once saved always saved who really live the life. They are very beautiful Christians. But they truly live the life. Very giving for the others in the name of the Lord. Also not into judging others while talking theology.

106 posted on 12/12/2011 5:52:19 PM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass ,Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace

“I know a man I worked with was going with someone else’s wife and was a player to women in Christian coffee house events. He would quote scripture about how he was already forgiven while openly admitting this all because of how screwy this view can go. He knew scripture too.”

For saved believers, the issue of continuing to sin and it’s consequences is discussed here in Romans:

Romans 6: 1-23

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


116 posted on 12/12/2011 6:42:43 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: johngrace
I know a man I worked with was going with someone else's wife and was a player to women in Christian coffee house events. He would quote scripture about how he was already forgiven while openly admitting this all because of how screwy this view can go. He knew scripture too.

And we all know about priests who hear confessions, assign acts of penance and grant absolution, conduct Mass and then rape the altar boys. So I would be careful judging a faith by those who proclaim they follow it. That person you describe who says he's a Christian but then openly lives like he has no light in his soul is just the kind of person Jesus said to be wary of. We can "know" someone by their "fruit". But the truth of salvation by grace through faith is not "cheap grace". Those who truly grasp the enormity of the price Christ paid for our redemption can NEVER call it cheap grace. A person who says he is a Christian but does not demonstrate a changed life is not showing forth the fruit of repentance. A repentant heart is one that is grieved by sin and who seeks to live a holy life that brings honor and glory to God who saved him by his mercy and grace.

I think that parable Jesus gave of the servant who was forgiven of a crime by his master but who then turned around and mistreated another person who had owed him is a good example of this. One who has been forgiven by Christ but who then cannot live as one forgiven is demonstrating a person who has not understood grace at all. So, as you said, it IS living the life of faith and not just saying it. A person who is genuinely saved WILL live a changed life and it will be marked by a heart that no longer seeks after sin but who becomes more and more attuned to the things that please God.

We are saved by grace through faith UNTO good works which God has prepared for us. But those good works are not what saves us. Grace is grace after all.

171 posted on 12/13/2011 7:14:50 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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