Christianity’s Triumph (Christianity is growing more rapidly than that of any other major faith)

Only have a brief moment..

Unless you believe in collective salvation the “church” is simply a collection of individuals who have been saved.

Faulty premise, faulty conclusion. Not the Church we see in Acts and the Epistles. And, "just a collection of individuals"? Geez! You could say the same about the Elks Club and even they are more than that.

Never once have you seen in any of my posts a belief in OSOS [sic?].

Sorry, I inferred OSAS from your post. I didn't think you believed people go in and out of the Church based on salvation moment to moment.

Honestly, I don't see any Church in your view. Nothing different that a collection of individuals. 1+1=2. I think the answer is 2+++

You're still all individual all the time.

thanks for your courteous reply.

Church between Christ? No, we see it more like Church as hospital, Christ as the master physician/healer, the sickness is sin. And the “patients” help each other as well, as we seen in the Church in Holy Scripture. Another analogy is a family.

It’s quite a different concept than a collection of individuals by category. One that really results in a Church.

I’m curious how your view works. If the Church is “simply a collection of individuals who have been saved”, then:

- How is that different than, say, a category of left handed males between the age of 55 and 60? I mean this is a category, a defined collection, but there’s no relationship here. Is there no relationship between those in your view of ‘church’?

- Do they know each other and meet together? If so, are only those who are saved allowed in order to meet the collection requirements? How is this determined, does each self-selects themselves as “saved”? Can you object to their selection?

- In practice do you regularly attend this church or know anyone who does? I’m not trying to get personal, but wondering if you actually meet with a group from this collection of individuals you describe as ‘church’ or with something else.

>> I’m not trying to get personal<<

Of course you’re not.

>> but wondering if you actually meet with a group from this collection of individuals you describe as ‘church’ or with something else.<<

Now what difference would that make to you? I’ve told you before that you need to do whatever it is that you want to do. If you want to put me in some neat little box I’ll just let you do it from your imagination.

That’s nonsense. Jesus said “love your neighbor as yourself”. Please tell me what that “as yourself” means if it doesn’t mean that there is a reference point of love for others.

Like most scripture, one can go on quite a ways on what it means. I gave one or two in my previous replies. I'm not sure you read them if you still don't know. Suffice it to repeat here: Self love is not a teaching of Christ; self sacrifice is.

Another, more literal and simple meaning is as the golden rule: 'what is hateful to you, don't do to others' (cf: Hillel) or 'don't bite and devour each other' as Paul says.

But we most certainly aren't the 'reference point.' All we know of good and love is from God. This can explain why our Savior said the second commandment is like the first.

Also, the great commandments are far, far from the only teaching of Christ on this.

Jesus did not say “love others as God has loved you”.

He didn't? Hmm. I believe it's clear that this is precisely what He said, here:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
"For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
"And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now what difference would that make to you?

It's part of the other questions in the same group. Not personal. It doesn't matter to me on this thread except as it is pertinent to the discussion.

We are discussing what is 'church' and we have quite differing views. I'm asking here for how does your view work in practice, what does this view of 'church' look like? Does it exist as something concrete as opposed to only in the abstract as a category?

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