Posted on 12/21/2011 2:15:10 PM PST by NYer
The traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) has delivered its official response to a Vatican offer for reconciliation, but the response is not what the Holy See expected, reports leading Vatican journalist Andrea Tornielli.
Last week the SSPX submitted a response to the “Doctrinal Preamble” that was presented to the traditionalist group in September as the possible basis for a reconciliation with the Holy See. The document allowed for some amendment or clarification, but the Vatican made it clear that the SSPX would be expected to accept the essence of the statement, acknowledging the authority of Vatican II, before the traditionalist group could be regularized.
Bishop Bernard Fellay, the head of the SSPX, had already disclosed that the group would not accept the Doctrinal Preamble as it stands. His public comments seemed to indicate that the SSPX would suggest amendments to the document. (The text of the Doctrinal Preamble has not been made public. Bishop Fellay explained that it will remain confidential until a final decision has been made.)
However, according to Tornielli, the formal response submitted by the SSPX to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is neither an agreement nor a proposal for changes in the document. Tornielli suggests that the SSPX response seems to be a bid to gain some extra time for internal discussions, because Bishop Fellay—who appears to be leaning toward an accord with the Holy See—faces stiff opposition from hard-line traditionalists within the group.
Additional sources for this story
Some links will take you to other sites, in a new window.
“Dogma is anything to do with the essential teachings of the church.”
What Dogma did Vatican II introduce?
“Last I checked there was nothing in dogma requiring the use of Latin.”
What did Vatican II teach about Latin in the Mass?
“And yes, I am entitled to an opinion and to express an opinion of my brothers and sisters in Christ.”
Can you define the sin of detraction?
“I, call ‘em as I see ‘em.”
Newsflash, it’s not all about you.
That mass in the vernacular was equally valid to the tridentine mass.
I believe I said that earlier...
You first. :)
“That mass in the vernacular was equally valid to the tridentine mass.”
Where did Vatican II declare that Dogmatic?
Which is why I’m telling the truth out of love.
Is that permitted these days?
It’s not about me, but about what’s best for everyone, the church as a whole and for the Lefebvrists. I’ve said, many times, that the Chuch is stronger with them than without.
And apparently I must not be far off the mark given your comments here. Seems like I touched a nerve.
In the second Vatican council.
“Which is why I’m telling the truth out of love.”
What “truth”?
I ask, Where did Vatican II declare that Dogmatic?
You reply, In the second Vatican council.
Bzzzt. Fail. In fact Vatican II taught no such thing. Try again.
Why don’t you ping all your friends again? :)
The truth that the Church is stronger for having the Lefebrists as communicants.
I would be very interested in your dogmatic evidence that the tridentine mass is considered to be superior to the others.
“That mass in the vernacular was equally valid to the tridentine mass.”
Where did Vatican II declare that Dogmatic?
“I wouldn’t be lying to other people and calling myself Catholic.
I also wouldn’t be saying that I believed that the pope was the head of the Church. They don’t not really, because they aren’t willing to accept his authority.”
Would you be saying St. Paul was not Catholic? He did not accept the authority of St. Peter’s backsliding into Judaizing. There are many other saints throughout history who denied their pope’s authority to err. Were these saints not Catholic?
You stated that you believe the Pope was wrong. So, I want to see the evidence for your position that the tridentine mass was and is considered to be superior to the other forms.
I’d love to see it. If you can show me this, I’ll be happy to take your side.
“You stated that you believe the Pope was wrong.”
Really? Where?
“I want to see the evidence for your position that the tridentine mass was and is considered to be superior to the other forms.”
From: http://sicutincaelo.org/b04_tnoq.html
Pope Benedict XVI: In his book The Spirit of the Liturgy (written when he was the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith), he called the New Mass a “fabricated liturgy...a banal on-the-spot product,” which has divorced itself from the proper “organic, living process of growth and development” that takes place “over centuries.” (Ratzinger, J., The Spirit of the Liturgy, pp. 165-6. San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2000.)
Former head of the Holy Office, Cardinal Ottaviani, stated in his famous letter of alarm to Pope Paul VI concerning the New Mass: “...the Novus Ordo Missæ...represents, as a whole and in detail, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Holy Mass as it was formulated in Session XXII of the Council of Trent, which, by fixing definitively the ‘canons’ of the rite, erected an insurmountable barrier against any heresy which might attack the integrity of the Mystery.”
“That mass in the vernacular was equally valid to the tridentine mass.”
Where did Vatican II declare that Dogmatic?
“Would you be saying St. Paul was not Catholic? He did not accept the authority of St. Peter’s backsliding into Judaizing. There are many other saints throughout history who denied their pope’s authority to err. Were these saints not Catholic?”
Are you arguing *against* papal infalliability? This isn’t helping your case.
Papal Infalliability is Vatican I. It seems to me what Fellay is saying is that NONE of the councils are core doctrine to the Catholic Faith. This is bad. All of the councils are core doctrine.
This means that stuff like the Immaculate conception, Papal Infalliability, the divine nature of Christ, etc, none of it is a requirement for Catholics to believe.
Papal Infalliability explicitly states the circumstances in which the Pope is infalliable in faith and morals.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.