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To: mas cerveza por favor

“Somebody said that the SSPX is Protestant because it rejects Vatican II like Protestants rejected Trent.”

Indeed. That would be me.

“That is the main reason I referenced the contradictions between Trent and Vatican II”

Which is why you referenced the specific objections which concern the vernacular? The vernacular is an issue, and a big one with SSPX. If you’re conceding that issue, I’m happy to move on.

“really just about every council and encyclical prior to 1960 is in conflict with Vatican II”

Which is no different than what protestants say about Trent vs the Ecumenical councils. I should know because I was one.

“I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church as the mother and teacher of all churches”

No problem there.

“I promise true obedience to the Bishop of Rome, successor to St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ.”

Hrm. True obedience. That might be a bit difficult for you.

“I likewise undoubtedly receive and profess all other things delivered, defined, and declared by the sacred Canons, and general Councils, and particularly by the holy Council of Trent, and by the ecumenical Council of the Vatican, particularly concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching.”

That would seem to apply also to Vatican II. So far Trent is three for three.

“I condemn, reject, and anathematize all things contrary thereto, and all heresies which the Church hath condemned, rejected, and anathematized.”

Ooh. That’s gonna sting. Four now.

“This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved”

He says ‘true Catholic faith’, not ‘true Catholic Church’, sir. Trent doesn’t say what you would have it say.

“which I now freely profess and to which I truly adhere”

Freely profess? Isn’t that what I was saying?


142 posted on 12/22/2011 9:26:04 AM PST by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman! 10 percent is enough for God; 9 percent is enough for government)
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To: BenKenobi

“Which is no different than what protestants say about Trent vs the Ecumenical councils. I should know because I was one.”

Then you should know that Protestants invoke novel interpretations of scripture that contradict the previous consensus interpretations of the fathers, doctors, councils, and popes.

“The vernacular is an issue, and a big one with SSPX. If you’re conceding that issue, I’m happy to move on.”

Latin vs. vernacular is a relatively minor issue. Nobody has a problem with the non-Latin Eastern masses. The big issue is with the Tridentine vs. the Novus Ordo mass, since the Novus Ordo de-emphasizes the sacrificial nature of the mass.

“Hrm. True obedience. That might be a bit difficult for you.”

TRUE obedience means Pauline obedience, that is obedience to the true doctrine over the fallible whims of human officials.

“That would seem to apply also to Vatican II. So far Trent is three for three.”

Only insofar as Vatican II conforms to previously defined INFALLIBLE doctrine as stated in the creed.

“He says ‘true Catholic faith’, not ‘true Catholic Church’, sir. Trent doesn’t say what you would have it say.”

That is a referencing faith in “the Holy Roman Church” previously defined in the creed. (http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus/Symbola/Tridentinae.html)

“Freely profess? Isn’t that what I was saying?”

Nobody ever said otherwise. The Church does not recognized forced conversion.


148 posted on 12/22/2011 9:57:31 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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