Posted on 12/24/2011 1:00:53 PM PST by Jim Robinson
John 14:8-10 8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Matthew 1:23 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
Are you familiar with the Mormon “first vision”? Mormons believe that we don’t HAVE to sin, that we can be perfect in this life. That is just ONE teaching of theirs that is not Biblical.
Before you defend Mormons and think they are Christians, please do your homework. I can give you links to several sites that exposes Mormon doctrine for the demonic lie it is.
i repeat, Jesus NEVER said He was the Father.
Jesus is not the Father
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
The HOLY Spirit is not Jesus
The Father is not the Holy Spirit
The Father is not Jesus
got it?
there was only one gun and the poison has too do with the rest of your post of spaghetti wire.
....meaning so convoluted to untangle.
I'm missing my "Ellen White glasses" insult you generally greet me with. What's up with that?
I'm rather busy with Christmas festivities right now but I have given you some verses (which you deftly ignored) that show God COMMANDED the Sabbath Day to be a day of REMEMBRANCE that we are here as His creation. He was rather vocal about it as well. He uses it as a reason we should obey, follow and trust Him. Jesus was a Jew and followed it religiously (even though He was often accused of breaking it)throughout His life. Even in death He rested in the tomb on the Sabbath. The burden of proof is on you to prove the law (which is perfect)has been changed.
OLOFOB is correct on this one. Jesus never claimed to be the Father. Jesus is part of the Godhead and as such is so thoroughly like God the Father that their personalities are the same but They are distinctly different and have different duties. Consider three-in-one oil, what part lubricates and what part is rust preventive? It doesn’t matter. What matters is it works. We can never completely understand God but we can be assured of their perfectness, justice and mercy.
Give it up. A believer in man-made teachings is a disobedient fool.
JESUS is The WORD! It’s JESUS, first, last and always!
I am a member of HIS BODY where HIS WORD reigns Supreme.
There, fixed.
Joseph Smith was a prophet of satan, that's why he needed a gun.
It may make you feel better, but it isn’t biblical. FWIW, no Christian rejoices when an unbeliever dies.
Satan is the father of lies so if she's "lying for the lord", it's not for Jesus.
Because by your own admission you live in a town that is mostly LDS.
You aren’t fooling me.
Only Christ saves, and your name may be on LDS records, but you are more of the intellectual jack Mormon, you know the ones who pick and choose and thus aren’t ‘worthy’ of being active LDS.
You expect honesty from a Mormon, on a public forum?? You should know better by now, dear. ;)
not really, BM. Walter Martin knew his cults and was well researched, regardless of the smear campaign the LDS puts against him.
I was once one of those dead, Christians kept trying and Christ brought me to life.
There are many short replies on this thread, but replying to this particular comment requires some thought. Please bear with me.
You’ve taken the middle ground that Mormons, Catholics, Lutherans, Mennonites, and “on and on and on” (so I’ll assume Methodists and Baptists) are Christians. I’m not a theologian, but I’m certain that virtually nobody is going to agree with that, particularly the Mormons.
The entire premises of the Mormon religion since 1830 is that the Christian church ceased to exist shortly after Christ’s death. Joseph Smith, Jr. restored the Christian church to the earth. All other churches are “an abomination.” “So-called Christians.” “The Whore of Babylon.” No other religions are Christians.
In fact, until 1990, the Temple Endowment Ceremony for Mormons involved a Protestant Minister being paid by Satan to preach Satan’s false gospel. Spencer Palmer and Keith M. Engar played the Minister in the two most recent versions of the movie shown to Mormons in their Temple Ceremony before it was changed.
Any LDS Freeper on this site who is in their early 40s or older knows this is true. I’ll address later why they may not tell you this.
Others may provide you with countless quotes from Joseph Smith, Jr. and Mormon prophets since 1830 saying exactly the same thing: If you’re not a Mormon, you’re not a Christian.
Have you noticed the public relations campaign and the postings by LDS members isn’t “Mormons are Christians, too? It’s “Mormons are Christians.” The part that’s understood by them is: “Mormons are Christians (and you’re not).”
Some will say “well, all churches say they are the one and only, what’s wrong with Mormons saying they are the One True Church.”
Wrong. If a Protestant says that someone can speak directly to God, that’s not saying that a Catholic isn’t a Christian. If a Methodist says that women can be ministers, that’s not saying that Baptists aren’t Christians. I sprinkle, you dunk. We’re both Christians. But that’s not the way Mormons have seen it. Since 1830.
Now, you may hear from some LDS members who say “no, no, no, we consider you a Christian too. At that point, we get into a really touchy area that you should research.
Those who are not LDS refer to it as “Lying for the Lord.” LDS admit it exists and they not only condone it, but their Apostles (notably Dallin H. Oaks) have justified it, and even their primary apologetics site, www.fairlds.og refers to it as “lying,” and justifies it, they just don’t like calling it “Lying for the Lord.”
Remember that Joseph Smith, Jr. lied about polygamy from 1831 until his death. The LDS Church acknowledges this (and many other lies). However the arguments include (a) well, God told him to lie, because God wasn’t ready to tell the rest of the world about polygamy (others would say – well, isn’t that convenient for Joseph Smith when people accused him of illegal polygamy or polyandry, taking other men’s wives as his own), and (b) you would lie to keep your family from being killed, right?, so lying is okay sometimes. Remember that the LDS has many things they consider “sacred.” You would call them “secret.” If you read LDS threads, you’ll find people sarcastically saying “that’s sacred, not secret,” because if you ask a Mormon to tell you about their ‘secret Temple Cremony,” they’ll say “it’s not secret, it’s sacred.” Your secret garmet (underwear)? It’s not secret, it’s sacred. What about the first of the secret handshakes to get into the Celestial Kingdom? That’s not secret, it’s sacred.
So you have some good people who believe they are doing the right thing and protecting their faith by ‘telling you a little white lie,’ to hide things about their faith.
They change the Temple Ceremony. Did you get rid of the slitting of the throat? Ummmmm. Errrrr. No. We … ummm … never … ummm … had a slitting of the throat. Yeah, that’s the ticket. If you want to call it Lying for for the Lord? Yes, it’s done. If you want to call it protecting something that’s sacred (not secret)? Yes, it’s done.
I’ve written about my own experience with “Ask a Mormon” versus what’s in the official LDS education manuals for ages four through eleven, twelve to college, college, couples about to marry, doctrinal pronouncements by the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve. If you doubt anything about “Lying for the Lord,” Google it. Read what LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks has to say about it. Read what LDS apologists at FAIR have to say about it. Make your own judgment. You should also read extensively on “faith promoting history,” a phrase most closely related to Apostle Boyd K. Packer.
Now, I don’t know if you are a theologian, but I’m not. I can tell you that virtually nobody who actually studies these things considers the Mormons to be Christians. Scholars who study the essence of God and Jesus Christ do not. Christianity is monotheistic, with a triune Godhead, as I understand it. Mormonism is polytheistic. Heck, you’ll become a god yourself one day, with your own planet, if you’re exalted. The nature of Christ and his death on the cross are not the same for Mormons as they are for Christians. You notice Mormons don’t have crosses anywhere? They earn exaltation through their works and following rules, not through Christ’s sacrifice on a cross. And they don’t get into the Celestial Kingdom unless Joseph Smith lets them.
But let’s consider it another way, in Mark 8:27-29:
27And Jesus went on with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi. And on the way he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am?” 28 And they told him, “John the Baptist; and others say, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets.” 29 And he asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You aresthe Christ.”
The Christ. That’s who he was to those who followed him. To the people, those who didn’t, he was just ‘one of,’ not ‘the one.’ Mormon doctrines make Jesus “one of” rather than “the One.” According to Mormon leaders, Jesus is not the Christ, the Son of the living God; He is a Christ, a Son of a living God.
”Sin is upon every earth that ever was created … Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through” ~ Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 14:71-72.
”Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons or daughters of Elohim…Among the spirit children of Elohim the firstborn was and is Jehovah or Jesus Christ to whom all others are juniors.” ~ The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Salt Lake City, Utah, 30 June 1916, quoted in the 2002 copy of LDS’s Ensign Magazine on the Official LDS Website.
In 1998, when President/Prophet Gordon B. Hinkely was asked if he believed in the same Jesus as those who were not Mormons believed in he said “No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” And he was being truthful. The Mormon Christ is not the Christian Christ.
Do you see a difference between the Christ, the Son of the Living God, which is what Christians believe, and just one of the christs, just one of the sons, of just one of countless living gods, which we’re going to become if we’re exalted, so we can’t have endless physical, celestial sex, producing our own sons and christs and eventual gods?
To me, that’s a major difference. And the reason why nobody except an extremely liberal theologian is ever going to consider a Mormon a Christian. Do you believe in Christ, or a christ? The Son of God, or a son of a god? Are you going to be a god yourself one day, exalted with your own planet, having your own christs of other planets? Welcome to Mormoninity, but not Christianity.
For every quote I wrote about there being multiple gods, and multiple christs, and there being a different christ in the Mormon faith, you'll find that there are others who can cite dozens and dozens of quotes from LDS publications. doctrine, and prophets. You'll notice I cited something as recent as 2002.
I respect their right to believe as they believe. But I respectfully disagree - and suggest you read more and consder before you suggest - that Mormons are Christians
And thank God for that too! You have been saved and have been given a task. Not an easy path but one with great rewards.
Ummm, BM honey, the Browns were discredited almost 20 years ago.
Is it true that all the kids have to sit through the service with the parents?
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Yes. LDS services are divided into 3 parts about 1 hour each and members are expected to attend all 3. One is “Sacrament Meeting” - the main service where ‘talks’ are given by the mebership rather than a sermon and wonder bread and water is served in place of Communion to symbolize the LDS promising to ‘keep all the commandments’ the next week. In THAT service, all children attend, regardless of age. It can be quite distracting to try to listen with about 6 -12 babies crying and more toddlers and children fussing and talking etc.
For the other 2 parts, children are separate from the Parents. Those are Gospel Doctrine (Sunday School co-ed) and Priesthood/Relief society. The children attend their own versions of these based upon age. One of the harder things for those leaving the LDS and attending Christian churches is getting used to the children not being in Worship service and the quiet (not kidding).
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