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To: fishtank
I’m more convinced than ever that the lds is a factory for lying.

Early church leaders publicly denied committing polygamy. Although the practice began by the mid-1830's, it wasn't announced even to the average members of the church until 1852. One reason offered is that God had told Joseph Smith that the world wasn't ready to hear about the commandment to practice polygamy. And it was a commandment. The LDS prophet Brigham Young said:

"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - Journal of Discourses 3:266 (July 14, 1855).

In 1998, LDS prophet Gordon B. Hinckley appeared on the Larry King show and was asked about polygamy. He said:

"When our people came west they permitted it on a restricted scale."

Transcript.

Of course, polygamy was practiced before the LDS came west to Utah. And there were no limitations on the scale of practice in Utah.

It's like my post here, where a group of LDS not 'officially' affiliated with the LDS Church corrects the media on what Mormons believe. Although the site told the media on 1/5/2012 that there were 'zero' instances on LDS.org where the concepts that Mormons would become gods over their own planets was taught, I found eighteen instances, including Church Educational System manuals for children (4-11), youth (14-18), college students, couples considering marriage, and a doctrinal announcement by the prophet and quorum of twelve. I link another post in which I provide links to this teaching from the LDS Gospel Principles guide on the LDS.org site, quotes from prophets, articles from LDS magazines on the LDS.org site, and so on.

How can this be?

There is a sense of us versus them. The Missouri Wars were a two-sided affair but Mormons have been taught that was entirely persecution. I've linked the history taught to LDS youth. It's hidden behind a portal that you need a LDS password to access; gentiles aren't supposed to see it.

Cynics call what the Mormons do "Lying for the Lord." You can Google what ex-Mormons have to say about it.

A member of the LDS Quorum of the Twelve (an Apostle of the LDS Church), Dalin Oaks, gave a famous speech justifying some kinds of lying - because there are appropriate lies. He said:

" My heart breaks when I read of circumstances in which wives and children were presented with the terrible choice of lying about the whereabouts or existence of a husband or father on the one hand or telling the truth and seeing him go to jail on the other. These were not academic dilemmas. A father in jail took food off the table and fuel from the hearth. Those hard choices involved collisions between such fundamental emotions and needs as a commitment to the truth versus the need for loving companionship and relief from cold and hunger. My heart also goes out to the Church leaders who were squeezed between their devotion to the truth and their devotion to their wives and children and to one another. To tell the truth could mean to betray a confidence or a cause or to send a brother to prison. There is no academic exercise in that choice!

I think too many Mormons have taken his message out of proportion and believe that denial or lying to protect the church is justified. They are supported by the teaching of LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer in his famous speech, The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect, in which he instructed LDS historians to write "faithful" history that did not include facts that were harmful to the testimony of LDS members, or that showed the church, its leaders, or its history in a bad light. He said they would not have salvation if they did. It was, and had been, enforced with disenfellowshipment and excommunication.

As Packer said: "Some things that are true are not very useful."

36 posted on 01/08/2012 7:14:49 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster; fishtank
What I said about LDS position that its historians who (a) write the truth but (b) hurt the faith of LDS members, lose salvation is powerful enough that I should quote from the Mantle speech cited above. Here is the admonishment:

"A destroyer of faith--particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith--places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities."

You should read it in context. LDS historians have been excommunicated. Start with the September Six. Others have lost their Temple Recommends, so they can't enter the Celestial Kingdom, the highest of the three levels.

"Some things that are true are not very useful" in writing Mormon history. You can lose your place among the faithful in the eternities just for writing or speaking those truths.

37 posted on 01/08/2012 7:26:11 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: Scoutmaster; fishtank

Good points. A counter however to the rank and file going out on a limb rather than it coming directly from LDS inc is I was very clearly, very specifically told while I was training for my LDS mission to deny, lie, twist, dissemble or confuse the situation when certain LDS doctrines, history and teachings came up.

Fishtank is right, LDS is a factory for lying.


44 posted on 01/08/2012 9:04:45 AM PST by reaganaut (If Romney is a conservative then I'm the frickin Angel Moroni.)
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