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To: wafflehouse
ok then. lets pretend i am stupid.

No, I will not do that. I am not going to let you make a trivial game of this. My time is important enough to me not to let you waste it.

please explain to me in SMALL WORDS how this is not contrary to scripture:

No. I will give you my thoughts on my terms. If it is not clear, you will have to go somewhere else. You can at least read instructions enough to write html in a chosen font face and color, so don't plead stupidity and poop on my effort to illuminate your sandbox.

God has nothing whatever to do with the “sacred violence” of the sacrificial system (statement from the article)

The author is correct, backed up by Holy Scripture.

The bottom line is THAT NOW The God's righteous demands have totally been met by our Savior and Redeemer, on our behalf, once and for all, throughout eternity. The God is no longer interested -- in fact rejects -- any further attempts to recreate any sacrificial system with any kind of "sacred violence." The one which He insisted on once, has happened, and is past. Now in effect is the Second Will, the First Will having been utterly removed (the one with blood of bulls and goats that could never take away Sin), and the Second Will (Testament) is established because of The Christ's submitting to and doing the Will of The Father. (Heb. 10:9)

Furthermore, by this Second (and Last) Will (Testament, Covenant) we (the regenerated believer-disciples) are sanctified (sainted, made holy, separated from Sin, Satan, and the World's culture) by the offering (since it is for sin, it must be a bloody, not a bloodless one, not a wafer) of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (ephax = emphatically once for all time, never to be repeated) (Heb. 10:10)

Finally, This (God)Man, after He had offered one sacrifice (a bloody one)(himself) for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of The God. Such sacrifice, again, is never to be repeated! Therefore to recreate this through instituting "sacraments" is doing exactly what the author of the article ought to condemn. This is what I spoke of before.

To reinvent the "sacral society" as a carrying forth of Israel's Law-based religion, with a water-tight division creating a clergy class and a separate "lay" class is the Niko-laitan error. And the recreation of "sacraments," especially as a supposed reappearance of Christ's actual body and blood, presents the problem of corruption/destructibleness of the elements, especially when digested, a paradox.

The Lord's Supper, as conducted by the Lord himself (how could he eat his own body and drink his own blood, when as yet he was not even dead?) would be and is a Memorial meal, with bread and UNfermented (unleavened) blood of the cluster, as the tokens of His Passion. There would be recognition of the moments of His agony and love, conducted under the guidance of The Holy Ghost, with sincere preparation; and conclusion with a hymn.

This would be a Remembrance Supper occasion as ordained, not a Resacrifice.

But your thesis of Old Testament sacrifices being required by or pleasing to The God is not only forever done away with, but never was His desire. Read Psalm 40:6-8, Heb. 10:4-14, Is. 1:11,13, Hosea 6:6 -- these contradict your presuppositiob of the author being a Scripture rewriter and false teacher. You ought to be able to prove that a lot more substantively.

This author is quite correct, and your hypothesis is dead wrong, if you are trying to apply it at this time in history, which is the time frame the author refers to.

FOR THE RECORD, HERE IS A DETAILED SUMMARY:

From Tbe Creation until the cross-death of Jesus The Christ, God required blood sacrifices. He allowed animal sacrifices to be made in order to postpone the debt due Him by mankind for initiating and continuing to practice disobedience to His clear instructions. However, the end for each and every individual was physical death as the consequence for the slightest error. Their flesh bodies decayed, but their ever-lasting indestructible soul/spirits were transferred to a kind of holding pen, one outside of the time/mass/radiation/gravity sphere. There they were to be retained for final disposition.

This continued for several thousand years, and through several consecutive updatings (called Covenants) of the disclosed determinate Will by The God. The last in this series was The God's _written_ agreement with a group of especially selected Semites. The Law under the Mosaic Covenant is today known as Torah, to which further historical and explanatory additions were made by The God through men who put His revelations and instructions into writing. These writings plus Torah is called Tanakh in Semitic. In English, Tanakh is the first written Will (or Testament, or Covenant).

But to wind up this phase of His plan of dealing with mens' disobediences, The God sent Son (His title) to enter the world as a human, and be tested to see if such a human perfectly conceived, and occupied by Divinity, could fulfill The God's righteous demands for payment of the cumulative sin debt owed Him. In fact, this God-in-the-flesh man did, on behalf of all mankind, live in a manner perfectly most pleasing to The God, up to a point in time.

At that time, it was perfectly apparent that all the animal body/blood sacrifices, though postponing the day of payment, did not take away the accumulated debt, because The God had predetermined that it could only be paid in human blood.

But it could only be paid with human blood that would not decay -- that it would be far more durable than even silver or gold or platinum -- that it would never, ever in the least decay or change, thus proving perpetually that the transaction had taken place, and the consideration received.

It must be collected from the Earth, be moved into another sphere/dimension called Heaven, and forever remain in the Throne Room there, the Holiest Of All; and always be visible, to exhibit The God's most valuable Treasure -- the Blood from the human body of The Precious Son of His Love. It was also located there to cover and make inaccessible the contents of a sealed box that contained the hewed stone upon which His Law was written.

But going back to the moment of the fulfillment of the Law, culminating on the Cross, we see what was going on. Though this God-man Jesus had lived a perfect life and thus was eligible to immediately return to this sphere of The Heaven, His peculiar quality of compassion pervaded His further actions. He remained behind to give His life as the ransom for many, out of sovereign love for them.

Somewhen, He had arranged with His Father, The God, to receive not only the wrath of religious theocrats and petty officialdom for being Divinity in Person, but in the same plight to willingly receive and endure the immeasurable furious wrath of The God for being The Man of men! And under that contract, to bear within His body all the sins of all mankind -- to be declared Sin Personified, so that The Holy God's entire pent-up wrath would be spent in fully collecting the Blood-price from Him, down to the very last gamma globule in payment (and in advance) for the least imaginable disappointment to Him ever caused by mankind.

Now, this portion of the transaction all took place on the Savior's Cross, where under this duress Jesus hung, died, and was pierced to the pericardium and through! That is, his soul and human spirit left the body of flesh, and descended into that "holding pen" -- one portion of which was Paradise. But in fact, The God, unable to look on All Sin Personified, turned His back on The Crucified, thus inconceivably multiplying the fiery burning torment of this Abandoned One for an eternity-unmeasured time.

Yet, the The God's wrath being assuaged, the Sin-bearing body, purified but bereft of soul and spirit, died. That body, dismounted from the wood and laid in the Tomb, received perfect pure rest until just before dawn on the First day of the week. Then somehow, He that raised up Christ from the dead ones rejoined Jesus' soul, spirit, and glorified but wounded body. After briefly greeting Mary of Magdala, Jesus The Christ ascended to The Heaven with His Holy, Precious Blood.

There, beginning his tenure as the Eternal High Priest of Us, He placed The Incorruptible Treasure upon the Golden Mercy Seat, for the final affirmation of His Work, and final purchase of the reconciliation of The Most Reverent, Holy, Loving God and Father of Mankind to whom the undeserving but deeply grateful children, having been desperate and defiant former enemies, and now eternal subjects, became His glorious Kingdom forever. There you have it -- why The God is no longer interested in efforts to earn one's way to heaven through personal good deeds or sacraments. What he is interested, though, is forever Remembrance of His Son's Passion, unfeigned love in sharing His love of the brethren, recruitment and oversight of personally supervised believer-disciple servants, reverence toward and familiarity with His Holy Word, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to His name, doing beneficial good, communication through fellowship in the Gospel, and contending for The Faith.

With sincere and felicitous regards, and seeking the certain deliverance of your never-dying soul -- CFS

48 posted on 01/16/2012 1:46:22 AM PST by imardmd1 (Ps. 66:16 "Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what He hath done for my soul.")
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To: imardmd1
(i said, "ok then. lets pretend i am stupid...)

No, I will not do that. I am not going to let you make a trivial game of this. My time is important enough to me not to let you waste it.


i am not making a trivial game of this. i am asking for a simple explanation. This is trivial and a waste of your time then?

No. I will give you my thoughts on my terms. If it is not clear, you will have to go somewhere else. You can at least read instructions enough to write html in a chosen font face and color, so don't plead stupidity and poop on my effort to illuminate your sandbox.

i am not pleading stupid here. I am asking for you to explain this in the author's defense. Refusal is probably the best course of action here, because these quotes are directly contrary to scripture

The bottom line is THAT NOW The God's righteous demands have totally been met by our Savior and Redeemer, on our behalf, once and for all, throughout eternity. The God is no longer interested -- in fact rejects -- any further attempts to recreate any sacrificial system with any kind of "sacred violence."

God set up a specific system in Law. Certainly no other system would be acceptable. No sacrifice is possible where there is no Temple, so any type of sacrifice would certainly be rejected.
See: Leviticus 17:1-9, Deuteronomy 12:5-14,Deuteronomy 16:5-6

The one which He insisted on once, has happened, and is past. Now in effect is the Second Will, the First Will having been utterly removed (the one with blood of bulls and goats that could never take away Sin), and the Second Will (Testament) is established because of The Christ's submitting to and doing the Will of The Father. (Heb. 10:9)

Certainly God didnt want that, or he would have made it a part of his plan from the beginning. I dont argue this point with you: We are sanctified ONLY through the blood of Christ.

Furthermore, by this Second (and Last) Will (Testament, Covenant) we (the regenerated believer-disciples) are sanctified ...

'last will and testaments'? Is he dead?

To reinvent the "sacral society" as a carrying forth of Israel's Law-based religion, with a water-tight division creating a clergy class and a separate "lay" class is the Niko-laitan error.

'Law-based religion'? on the contrary, it is a God-based religion.. And they worship the same God we do, the God of Israel. If you read why the Levitical priesthood came about, then the reason for it is obvious and the parallels to the 'New Deal' are also be obvious. I have no idea what 'Niko-laitan error' is, but people using religion to elevate themselves over other people certainly didnt start with them.

And the recreation of "sacraments," especially as a supposed reappearance of Christ's actual body and blood, presents the problem of corruption/destructibleness of the elements, especially when digested, a paradox.

i am not sure what you are referring to here, but it sounds like 'Communion'. Catholic belief in drinking the actual blood and body of Christ is directly contrary to scripture. Acts 15:20 specifically forbids this.

The Lord's Supper, as conducted by the Lord himself (how could he eat his own body and drink his own blood, when as yet he was not even dead?) would be and is a Memorial meal, with bread and UNfermented (unleavened) blood of the cluster, as the tokens of His Passion. There would be recognition of the moments of His agony and love, conducted under the guidance of The Holy Ghost, with sincere preparation; and conclusion with a hymn.

This would be a Remembrance Supper occasion as ordained, not a Resacrifice.


'The Lords Supper'.. you mean Passover?
It certainly is a memorial meal. It very nicely illustrates the cyclical nature of prophecy fulfillment.

But your thesis of Old Testament sacrifices being required by or pleasing to The God is not only forever done away with, but never was His desire. Read Psalm 40:6-8, Heb. 10:4-14, Is. 1:11,13, Hosea 6:6 -- these contradict your presupposition of the author being a Scripture rewriter and false teacher. You ought to be able to prove that a lot more substantively. This author is quite correct, and your hypothesis is dead wrong, if you are trying to apply it at this time in history, which is the time frame the author refers to.

My thesis, is that the author is ignorant of the sacrificial system as illustrated by his words which are contrary to scripture. He is at best treating a huge part of God's word in a trivial and inconsequential manner. Trying to rationalize his error as 'applying it to the current time' is no more than that, a rationalization.

why The God is no longer interested in efforts to earn one's way to heaven through personal good deeds or sacraments.

you do bring up an interesting point here. Mosaic Law was NEVER a way to salvation. That was not it's purpose.
John 14:16 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
57 posted on 01/17/2012 8:10:53 AM PST by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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