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Outrage!Ö Military Tells Chaplains What They Can and Canít Say About HHS/ObamaAssault on Religion
Gateway Pundit ^ | February 3, 2012 | Jim Hoft

Posted on 02/06/2012 10:03:45 AM PST by Sons of Union Vets

Military Chaplains are being forbidden from reading the letter from the bishops protesting the HHS mandate. If they do, they are considered seditious. ht Gateway.

The emerging conflict between the Catholic Church and the Obama administration may have a new front: in the U.S. military itself.

The Catholic Church is fighting mad about an HHS ruling that would have them buy insurance for things they consider sinful–contraception, sterilization and abortion.

All the bishops in the country sent out a letter to be read in their parishes promising that the Church “cannot-and will not-comply with this unjust law.”

Even Archbishop Timothy Broglio, who is in charge of Catholic military chaplains sent out the same letter.

But after he did, the Army’s Office of the Chief of Chaplains sent out another communication forbidding Catholic priests to read the letter, in part because it seemed to encourage civil disobedience, and could be read as seditious against the Commander-in-Chief.

More than one Catholic chaplain who spoke to us off the record confirmed that many chaplains disobeyed this instruction and read the letter anyway. Others sought further instructions from their Archbishop.

(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: chaplains; firstamendment; hhs; hhsmandate; militarychaplains; obamacare; waronreligion

1 posted on 02/06/2012 10:03:53 AM PST by Sons of Union Vets
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To: Sons of Union Vets

The “powers that be” in the military, requested that the letter be censored before being read in order to remove a phrase that appeared to be inciting “civil disobedience” against the “commander in chief.”

No “appearing” about it. There SHOULD be civil disobedience - MASSIVE civil disobedience - before it is too late!


2 posted on 02/06/2012 10:10:12 AM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Weren´t muslims granted a waiver from obummer care?


3 posted on 02/06/2012 10:10:34 AM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug

I think they were.

But in general, these “waivers” are primarily being used to temporarily appease dissenters against Obamacare until after the November 2012 election.

After that, I think it is going to be “no holds barred.”


4 posted on 02/06/2012 10:18:09 AM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Military Chaplains have ways of getting the message out. They don’t have to read it they can just post it or leave it lying around for others to see.

Late 50’s…..Chanute AFB……One Sunday at Mass Fr. Gleason didn’t agree with a collection that was to be taken up, for the life of me I cannot remember why, but the collection basket was passed around and beforehand he said, “ I do not want to hear anything being dropped into that basket.” Not sure if that was a direct quote but it was the essence of his remarks. Not one penny was collected. He did what he was commanded to do but….


5 posted on 02/06/2012 10:30:00 AM PST by notaliberal
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Any chaplin that follows that order should be kicked out of the military. If they obey the order, they are saying the government is the state religion...


6 posted on 02/06/2012 10:43:12 AM PST by goat granny
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To: Sons of Union Vets; xzins

Huh? This makes the second thread in less than a week on the sad state of affairs, no pun intended, the military Chaplain Corps is having to deal with.


7 posted on 02/06/2012 10:47:04 AM PST by wita
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To: Sons of Union Vets

As a Catholic, and a retired member of the Armed Forces, I agree with the decision. You can flame if you like. Politics from the pulpit in the Armed Forces, is akin to politics in uniform. A big no no. We are not expected to reject our faith, and can freely discuss these matters in private, and agree with the Church. We simply can’t do it publicly. That is what our service and our oath requires.

Chaplains in the military are required, too not only administer to their own faithful, but to hold non-denominational services as well. They are required to minister to all Soldiers under their command. They can certainly seek out members of their Church, and impart the contents of the letter, in private fashion.

I had a Baptist Chaplain while serving in Iraq. I attended both non-denominational, and Baptist services. At no time did he impart Church position on political issues. He sinply dealt with scripture, sermon, and lecture. he would apply all three to the issues of faith, family, and Soldiering. As it should be.


8 posted on 02/06/2012 10:54:09 AM PST by 724th ("Introducing the Chocolate Starfish, and the Hot Dog flavored water.")
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To: Sons of Union Vets
First Obama stepped in it. Now he is jumping up and down to spatter it on everybody.

Silent defiance works for me.

9 posted on 02/06/2012 10:57:31 AM PST by Rapscallion (Do not allow Homeland Security to become our Gestapo .)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Once, officers took an oath to defend the Constitution, not just the CIC in the White House.


10 posted on 02/06/2012 11:05:13 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Sons of Union Vets
“The “powers that be” in the military...”

I believe it was just the Army, not the whole military. And “Following a discussion between Archbishop Broglio and the Secretary of the Army, The Honorable John McHugh, it was agreed that it was a mistake to stop the reading of the Archbishop’s letter.”

“There SHOULD be civil disobedience - MASSIVE civil disobedience - before it is too late!”

That's fine, but if you're an officer in the military, the last I heard, you protest by resigning your commission. And if you engage in civil disobedience, you should expect resistance whether you succeed or not. (Well, maybe not if you're an OWS type or something similar.)

By the way, just so we'd know what we are discussing, do you have a link to a copy of the actual letter in question?

11 posted on 02/06/2012 11:40:00 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

It is not civil disobedience to speak about religion and morals. Roman Catholic military chaplains have spoken against abortion always, even after it was legalized. If not permitted to preach, then the government has assumed the role of religion, something in direct violation of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. All members of the military swear an oath stating, “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” When there is a conflict between the U.S. Constitution and laws, then the U.S. Supreme Court decides. When the government forbids Catholic chaplains from reading a letter sent by their bishop, then the government has hijacked the religion!


12 posted on 02/06/2012 11:55:39 AM PST by Ranger Warrior ("To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Whatever momentary Schadenfreude which I experience for some of the various major religions who have sided with the Marxists/communists/socialist of the world and now find themselves trapped by their own stupidity, is more than offset by the fact I know the government is doing this to the rest of us.

A giant “We Told You So” may feel good in the moment but we now have to join forces to defeat the communist cancer which now infects our country.

Just maybe those religions who pray at the Marxist alter instead of GOD are starting to realize what they have done to themselves and the rest of us.


13 posted on 02/06/2012 12:00:00 PM PST by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: 724th
Chaplains in the military are required, too not only administer to their own faithful, but to hold non-denominational services as well.

As a retired military chaplain (Army), that simply isn't the case. Protestant chaplains are not permitted to conduct Catholic services, and Catholic chaplains cannot conduct Protestant services. A Methodist cannot do a baptist service, and etc.

Non-denominational in the military is never Catholic and is really just a heinz variety of protestant.

Perhaps the Army is different than the AF, but in no case should denominational services be led by any chaplain not a part of that denomination.

14 posted on 02/06/2012 12:06:04 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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To: xzins

It has been my experience that Army chaplains hold seperate denominational, and non-denominational services. Keeping the two seperate. One being specific. The other being generic. I must add, that while I agree with the position, should they make a move, by order, to enforce. Rebellion would then be my choice.


15 posted on 02/06/2012 12:15:32 PM PST by 724th ("Introducing the Chocolate Starfish, and the Hot Dog flavored water.")
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To: 724th
As a Catholic, and a retired member of the Armed Forces, I agree with the decision.

But you contradict yourself.

16 posted on 02/06/2012 1:17:21 PM PST by Talisker (Apology accepted, Captain Needa.)
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To: 724th
More than one Catholic chaplain who spoke to us off the record confirmed that many chaplains disobeyed this instruction and read the letter anyway.

Kudos to those Chaplains with spines.

This act by Soetoro and HHS, which is unconstitutional, deals with immorality. The steps taken by the Archbishop and these Chaplains wasn't done in public.

Your argument was tried at Nuremburg and it failed.

17 posted on 02/06/2012 1:41:57 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: 724th
I wouldn't flame you or anyone else here.

However, I do disagree that this situation can accurately be described as "politics from the pulpit."

This "politics from the pulpit" jive is precisely the kind of intellectual legerdemain that statists perform in order to confuse religious moral issues and politics with a view to making further encroachments into the religious sphere....as they have done in places like China and elsewhere.

It is because Catholics have done little or nothing to curb these encroachments that the statists have come this far.

The Catholic chaplains were going to read a letter from their Catholic bishop to inform the people in the pews that their Church was about to be forced by the government to do something that violated their Catholic religious beliefs.

Caesar is demanding something that belongs to God!

Hardly "politics from the pulpit" unless you have no problem with the idea of burning a pinch of incense to Caesar.

As for "Soldiering," the way I learned it, the oath of a member of the armed forces includes a promise to defend the Constitution.

For the Army, it reads thus:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

When the "orders of the President of the United States" violate the Constitution, then those "orders" are invalid.

18 posted on 02/06/2012 5:28:06 PM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: KrisKrinkle
Here is a link to the letter. I am pretty sure it is the same one from the USCCB that is being read all over the United States.

http://www.diocesephoenix.org/uploads/docs/RELIGOUS-LIBERTY-INSURANCE-LETTER-013012.pdf

19 posted on 02/06/2012 5:50:10 PM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: KrisKrinkle
Here is a link to Archbishop Broglio's actual letter.

http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=7656203&ct=11609821

20 posted on 02/06/2012 5:58:20 PM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

“Here is a link...”

Thank you very much for that.

After reading the letter several times, I don’t see anything seditious in it.

And if it is contemptuous it is just barely so, not blatantly so, and that only in so far as it states truth the statement of which some might consider contemptuous in and of itself.

I see no reason to forbid it’s reading and agree that it was a mistake to forbid it.


21 posted on 02/06/2012 7:29:31 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle
You are most welcome. I don't think that this letter is any different than the USCCB letter.

I don't see anything seditious in it either. You are right. All it does is to tell the truth. And sometimes, the truth hurts.

22 posted on 02/07/2012 3:39:16 PM PST by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: Sons of Union Vets
‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants.
Unholy War
Six Things Everyone Should Know about the HHS Mandate
Santorum: Obama Hostile to Christians

Understanding Oppostion to the HHS Mandate (Part 1): Why the Church Won’t Pay for Contracept
The Bishops Chickens Coming Home to Roost.
65 Orthodox Church bishops call on Obama to ‘rescind’ the ‘unjust’ contraception mandate
Doug Kmiec Writes Obama: 'Friendship Will Not Permit Me to Disregard Duty to Faith and Country'
Standing with the Bishops [Catholic Caucus]
Updated: *167* Bishops (More Than 90% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
Outrage!… Military Tells Chaplains What They Can and Can’t Say About HHS/ObamaAssault on Religion
Updated: *153* Bishops (Over 80% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
An Affront Catholics Agree On [Liberal and Conservative Catholics Against Obama Mandate]
Army Silenced Chaplains Last Sunday

Catholic Military Archdiocese & Chaplains interfered with last Sunday by Pres. Obama’s Admin
The Anti-Catholic President v. the Catholic Bishops
Sen. Rubio introduces bill to reverse Obama birth control mandate
Churches balk at birth control rule - Catholics won’t comply, Bishop Kevin Rhoades says
Protestants and Jews declare to White House: We stand with Catholics
Checking the Air Outside [Bp. Zubik's follow up to Obama's “To Hell with You”]
Mohler [Southern Baptist] Says Insurance Mandate Not Just 'Catholic' Issue
An Open Letter to President Barack Obama Concerning Recent Tyranny (With Pictures!)
Lincoln bishop: prepare for 'suffering' under HHS mandate
Bishop David Zubik confronts Obama
Obama’s ‘war on the church’

Pope hits out at 'radical secularism'
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
Bruskewitz: Fight Insurance Ruling [Sebelius a "bitter, fallen away Catholic"]
Letter from Archbishop John G. Vlazny on the matter of freedom of conscience and decisions by HHS
Bishop Olmsted's Letter to Catholics [Catholic Caucus]
Liberty for the Amish & Quakers but not Catholics. . .
Contraception mandate prompts Peoria bishop to instate St. Michael Prayer (Catholic Caucus)
Phoenix bishop (Olmstead): defy feds on birth control
A letter from Archbishop Dennis M. Schnurr concerning HHS edict

Speak honestly: abortion is ‘the killing of tiny human beings in the womb’ – Denver bishop
Bishop [Daniel Jenky] Blasts Secularist Intolerance, Calls For ‘Assertive Action’ to Defend Church
(Pittsburgh Bishop Zubik comments:) HHS delays rule on contraceptive coverage
Dolan: Natural law, not religious preference, dictates all life sacred
Religious leaders blast HHS over contraception mandate
Mandated Contraception, Sterilization: Caesar Demands Church Violate Conscience
OBAMA’S CONTEMPT FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (mandates coverage of sterilization & contraception)
Implications of Obama Admin move to force Cath hospitals to provide contraception and sterilizations
Catholic doctors’ group launches petition against contraception mandate
Contraception mandate tramples religious freedom, US bishops say

23 posted on 02/07/2012 9:45:08 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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