Skip to comments.Mormons reject core doctrines
Posted on 02/15/2012 5:09:18 AM PST by Colofornian
Pat Waldron asserts that Mormons are Christians and offers these reasons: First, Mormons call themselves "The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints." Second, Mormon temples contain pictures of Jesus. Third, the Mormon choir will "bring tears to your eyes, if you are a Christian." And, fourth, Mormons are nice people. But these "reasons" are hardly convincing because they deal only with superficial appearances.
A more robust analysis reveals that Mormons reject absolutely essential Biblical beliefs that Christians have held for centuries. First, Mormons reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Christians believe that there is one God and only one God, and that he exists eternally as three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are each equally and fully God.
Second, related to the first, Mormons reject the Christian belief that Jesus is uncreated and eternal. In contrast, Mormons assert that Jesus is a created being. The official Mormon website states that Jesus "was the first spirit to be created."
Third, Mormons reject the Christian belief that there is only one god. In contrast, the official Mormon website states "Mormons do teach there are three Gods." Mormons believe in three gods. Christians are monotheists.
In summary, Mormons reject three essential Christian doctrines firmly held by Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Christians. We would do well to follow the words of Jesus when he said, "Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment."
Get used to it. This is what it'll be 24/7...
Why? We can thank Mittens in the news 24/7 & Mormons who aren't satisfied just to be Mormons...instead, they want to co-opt the Christian brand as their own.
Muslims don't try to be Christians; Jews don't want to be Christians; Scientologists are "clear" and resolute to be Scientologists? Mormons? Whereas once upon a time, they were happy to label Christians and Christianity the "church of the devil," creedally abominable and apostate, now they can't stop lusting after the title.
Yes...the Mormon Jesus was apparently a "creature" of some sorts before He was a 'Creator.' Mormonism claims that we all essentially started off as some sort of "spirit-goo" or "intelligence-goo"...Joseph Smith came up with this on May 6, 1833 in a "revelation":
"Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence...was not created or made, neither indeed can be...man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element [are] inseparably connected..." (Lds Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33)
Hence...nobody is more or less eternal than the Mormon jesus or the Mormon gods!
In contrast, the Bible assigns Jesus as being the Creator of All Things & All Beings -- whereas the Mormon "Jesus" is Simply a spirit Creature who then "evolved" as an offspring of Kolobian parents.
Compare that to the Jesus of the Bible Who created ALL things--including all angels...including even Lucifer (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10).
The Mormon Jesus is a 'Saved Being': "Christ is a saved being (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)
Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)
Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72
Sorry...not even close...the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
Well, first of all, Mormons believe in more than three gods. Joseph Smith claimed a council of gods appointed their god to be god of this world. And then that god had a goddess-wife.
And then from there, the Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)
What did Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, teach about their god being appointed by other gods?
Smith excerpt #1:
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
Smith excerpt #2:
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
Hey...IF the gods appointed ONE god for the Mormon, why do they have three plus?
Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie in his Mormon Doctrine book: "Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these THREE are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
When it comes to business dealings, lots of Mormons are not honest.
Basic Question: How do we know that the Mormon god is different from the god of the Bible?
(1) Mormon "apostles" themselves confirm this:
One of the leading regarded "thinkers" among Lds "apostles" of history was James Talmage. One of his well-read books was The Articles of Faith. Here's what he had to say:
"We affirm that to deny the materiality of God's person is to deny God; for a thing without parts has no whole, and an immaterial body cannot exist. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims against the incomprehensible God, devoid of 'body, parts, or passions,' as a thing impossible of existence..." (The Articles of Faith, p. 48 -- published by The Church of JC of Latter-day Saints, 1987)
This isn't "ancient" doctrine. The official Lds church republished this in 1987! Talmage claims there is no such Spirit-God...he "cannot exist...a thing impossible of existence" per the Mormon church!
They openly deny this Spirit-God!
That only means one thing! (They have distinct gods!)
Yet what did Jesus say? 24 God IS SPIRIT, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)
How many prefer Jesus' word over made-up Mormon mumbo-jumbo?
(2) Whereas apparently the Mormon god knows a LOT of other gods, the prophet Isaiah of the Bible did not. In fact, may I "sweetly" challenge Lds to go to the Bible they say they adhere to and meditate day and night upon Isaiah 43, Isaiah 44, and Isaiah 45? Isaiah reminds us, as if the verses below weren't enough, in 45:14: "'Surely God is with you, and there is NO OTHER; there is NO OTHER GOD.'"]
Now, were I to impose Mormon theology upon the prophet Isaiah's words, I'd have to change verses to read as follows:
* "I am the Lord, and there are others; apart from me there are multiples of gods." (A perversion of Is. 45:5)
* "I am the Lord, who has organized all things, who with a council of gods stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth with my fellow divine family members." (A twisting of Is. 44:24)
* "It is us who made the earth, and created mankind upon it. Our own hands stretched out the heavens; we marshaled their starry hosts." (A pretzel version of Is. 45:12)
* "I am the first, well almost, and I am certainly not the last; there are other gods all around me." (More twisting - this time of Is. 44:6)
*"Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are our witnesses. Are there gods beside me? Yes, I know plenty." (Utter perversion of Is. 44:8)
*"Before me generations of gods were formed, and so shall it be evermore happily ever after." (Ah, again, the Mormon "gospel" twisted version of Is. 43:10)
How else can we tell that the Mormon god is distinct from THE God of the Bible?
(3) LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote, "The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 64).
As somebody once pointed out...Notice McConkie's use of the word "resurrected" and the phrase, "worked out his salvation." Only those who die can be resurrected, and only those who are lost need salvation.
Mormon leaders have taught that Heavenly Father needed "salvation!" And, since death came due to sin (either your own, or in Jesus' case, someone else's), whose sin caused Heavenly Father to die, Mormons? Whose sin was around that prompted his death? His own?
Also, please note another aspect of this Lds "apostle's" claim: He said Heavenly Father is a "perfected...exalted man." Interesting. Why did He say "perfected" -- vs. "perfect? This Lds "apostle" claimed Heavenly Father needed a spiritual makeover and needed to be perfectED!!!
(I guess that shows you what kind of sinner-saved god Mormons REALLY embrace!!!)
(4) What other Lds general authority comment supports the notion that Lds worship a sinner-saved god?
Well, after B.H. Roberts, the next "deep theologian" to fill the ranks of Mormonism was Lds "apostle" James E. Talmage.
Here's how Talmage weighed in on this: "...but though the Son is glorified with the glory of the Father, you can't change the fact that He is the Son of that Father,
and that Father,
the Eternal Father,
the Father of Jesus Christ,
the Father of His spirit
and the Father of His body,
was once a Man,
and has progressed,
not by any favor but by the right of CONQUEST OVER SIN,
and over death,
to His present position of priesthood and power,
of Godship and Godliness,
as the Supreme Being whom we all profess to worship"
(James E. Talmage, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 123).
So there ya go! Talmage says the Mormon god "progressed...to His present position of...Godship". He got the "godship" job! And how did he manage that? Well he won via a "Conquest over sin"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and death)
Hmmm...the Mormon elohim was a sinner!!!! (says a prominent Lds "apostle" still repeatedly cited by the Mormon church and by Mormon leaders)
Per the Mormon Journal of Discourses: "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is" (Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 1:123).
So. Mormon leaders have stated that Elohim (God the Father), as a mortal on some distant planet similar to Earth, went through the same struggles as present-day humans in order to obtain his Godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are," HYDE is claiming GOD (our Heavenly Father) was mortal like we are. To be consistent, HYDE is claiming mortality for GOD, so it would have to include "a sinful nature".
Well, again, we know from history that mortality was provoked by things having to do with a tree. In the book of Genesis, it was rebellion (sin) by picking fruit from a forbidden tree. And for Jesus, it was donning a tree (the cross) to pay for the fruit of Adam & Eve's sin passed down throughout mankind. So sin was linked to mortality somehow -- either thru direct sin or indirectly taking on the sin of others.
So, again, if the Mormon elohim was mortal, why? Was it his sin -- or that of another?
Other Lds leaders even elaborated a bit beyond that: "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, 'knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings' of mortality?" (Brigham Young, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, p. 34, brackets in original)
So Brigham claimed the Mormon god knows all about the "toils & sufferings" of mortality from firsthand experience!!!
And another Lds "apostle," Orson Whitney, emphasized that "Mormonism teaches that God was once just like ourselves; that the eternal part of Him was enshrined in mortal flesh, subject to mortal ills and earthly pains and toils." (Orson F. Whitney, May 6, 1892, Collected Discourses 3:45)
So perhaps the "best" way for us to describe the Mormon god, per their "apostles," is to first ask Mormons to describe themselves, since Whitney says he "was once JUST LIKE OURSELVES!" That not only includes mortal flesh, but mortal ills. (And guess what prompted mortal ills?) That's right, sin.
(5) Finally, consider what two other Lds "apostles" claimed:
"God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degress of advancement" (John A. Witdsoe, Rational Theololgy, 1915, p. 61)
And: "Gods, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc." (Parley P. Pratt, The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21)
Parley P. Pratt, btw, is Mitt Romney's G-G grandfather! (And Romney says he is sticking to the "faith of his fathers!")
So...if ya wanna know the gods of Mitt Romney & his fellow Mormons...well...if you saw aliens from another planet, and one said they were humanoid just like us, and another said, "Yeah, I'm humanoid, too. But I'm also divine." Well, there's your Mormon master race! Aliens from heavens, Mormons all of them, some claiming to be man-made gods, and others claiming to be future man-made gods.
The Mormon "apostles" -- the entire bunch -- are whacko heretics!
Like all cults, their deepest hunger is for legitimacy! And by co-opting Christianity, they believe they can get it.
He called it The World Wide Church Of God. Later, after his death, various church administrators regularized their beliefs along more traditional Christian lines and it is now called Grace Communion International (GCI).
They actually weren't the first such group to do that. We have the case of NUMEROUS Mormon groups without any affiliation to Latter Day Saints returning to their foundations in Christianity ~ goes on all the time. Some of them keep the Mormon titles for church officers, but many don't.
Then there's the far older Apostolic Charismatic Church of the First Born ~ just all over the West. Numbers of their congregations are easily confounded with Mormons ~ but for others the consumption of peyote sets them apart from just about everybody except Native American Religion (which has had a crossover membership situation with COTFB for years and years).
Some of the COTFB actually use the Book of Mormon, but they reject the Doctrines and Covenants as well as any authority over doctrine claimed by the LDS. Others never use the Book of Mormon but frequently have readily verified genealogies that show their close relationship to many Mormons.
Since most of the COTFB don't believe in doctors they have North America's highest infant mortality rate. Consequently they attract the attention of coroners and sheriffs ~ and downstream, frequently, doctors when outsiders try to save their infants and young children.
These guys make LDS Mormons look like ordinary folk in comparison. Their graveyards range from those with no markings at all to those that look medieval ~ packed tightly with monuments to infants who died early.
Things are looking up. The crowd who moved to Alaska in the 1920s and 1930s appear to have followed the path of the Worldwide Church of God and actually come around to Christian Orthodoxy to the degree they don't even know what their Great Great grandparents were up to (particularly the serial polygamy ~ they just don't understand why GGrandpa had 5 wives for instance).
So, yes, it can be done. Someday the LDS will wake up, set down that book, and turn into Methodists (or something like that).
The comments section on that article is filled with atheists and other D.U. types. Some managing to slam Romney because they think he is a republican.
Timeline: This nation was first populated from 1621 to 1776 by refugees and emigrants whose influence of Protestant doctrine prevailed. Their mindset determined the underlying precepts that made this, if not a Christian nation, at least one which allowed the Christian religion to flourish and produce America's greatness.
Looking at the general run of our rulers, particularly of the Supreme Court oligarchy, they were predominantly of the Protestant Reformation loyalty. Their forbears came here to escape the stifling dominance of state-funded religion, and they firmly incorporated this aversion into our Constitution and the Northwest Ordinance. Yet tolerance of personal belief in a Jesus Christ of the Bible, and practice of His principles became the approved norm.
Subsequently, though, the need for citizens to flesh out the great material opportunities necessitated a massive intake of immigrants whose loyalty was no longer to personal religious freedom of preferences, but rather the allegiance to statist religious forms which had the long history of controlling rulers and governments.
From that point, the long march of displacing Protestant values and morality began to undermine the original intentions of the Founders, of freedom from government contol and freedom of the marketplace of ideas. First, this misplaced liberal tolerance infected the upper classes of nominal Protestants, then spread across the population, resulting in election of liberal presidents and legislators.
Today we have almost full fruition of the rejecting the founding principles, by rejecting the basic religion that bore a free nation. With the replacement of Souter and Stevens, the Highest Court is finally rid of the slightest taint of the vestiges of the protestantism which originally prevailed. (Although, thank God, that a few of the remaining are to be honored for their desire to restore the philosophy of Original Intent!)
What has already preceded this in the executive branch? It is hard to believe that our current highest Executive Magistrate supports the doctrine of our founders, isn't it? What next?
The body of legislators and bureaucrats has long ago largely gone over to suppressing Christianity in education and government at all levels.
What are we to expect to move us as a nation farther away from Biblical Christian principles? Will election of Willard Romney ring in yet another acceptance of Mormonism at the highest level? Might we not expect him to implement another drift in the judiciary by preferring the nomination of his fellow religionists in the judiciary and bureaucracy? Would that be to our best interests?
I wonder. (But still ready to accept God's determined Will.)
The entire premise of his argument is wrong. “Christians believe that there is one God and only one God”
God doesn’t even believe that. If fact, he said just the opposite. The only passages in the bible that is authored directly by God are the ten commandments.
“And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written”
The first commandment is “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”
So, there are other Gods, and our God is insecure.
Now all the fundies will tell me what God really meant to say... Like God needs their help to get a point across.
I thought the comments were very interesting. Many of them were identical, written by a couple of people maybe instead of the “numbers” they appeared to be. Also many sounded just like the comments of FR from the mormonISM defenders and anti-Christians on FR.
Really? Either one of two things, you forgot your sarcasm tag which is sad because you are mocking God or you really beleive God Almighty is insecure, and if that be the case He is not worthy to be called God.
Any reasoned person would know what the meaning here, for instance I would say you have another god before you, and their name is “idiocy”.
A christian who goes straight to name calling and can’t even spell “beleive”? Oh- the sweet irony. But I digress
I was pointing out that the author’s premise is 180 degrees wrong. The bible is full of references to other gods. God’s own handwriting references other gods. Attack Mormons all you want, but at least use a better premise???
It is a damned poor mind indeed that can’t think of at least two ways of spelling any word.
You have completely distorted the meaning of that passage. God didn’t admit other gods exist. He merely prohibited one from believing there is another deity.
Also, there are other other Bible verses that directly quote God and reject your contention that are other gods. You don’t have a solid grasp of the Bible if you claim the ten commandments are the only passages directly authored by God.
Try these other verses, which totally refute your position:
“I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” Isaiah 44:6
“For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”1 Timothy 2:5
“There is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
“Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
“Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
“See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
“You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
“For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
“Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
“You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
“O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
“You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
“For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
“You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.” Isaiah 44:8
“I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.” Isaiah 45:5
“Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God.” Isaiah 45:14
“I am Yahweh, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18
“Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.” Isaiah 45:21
“I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isaiah 46:9
“And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; in that day Yahweh will be the only one [echad], and His name the only one[echad].” Zechariah 14:9
“”The foremost is, Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one [hen] Lord; “ Mark 12:29
“you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only [monos] God?” John 5:44
“I and the Father are one [hen].” John 10:30
“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only [monos] true God” John 17:3
“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one [hen], just as We are one [hen]” John 17:22
“since indeed God is one [hen]” Romans 3:30
“to the only [monos] wise God, Amen.” Romans 16:27
“there is no God but one [hen]” 1 Corinthians 8:4
“yet for us there is but one [hen] God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one [hen] Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6
“Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one [hen].” Galatians 3:20
“There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.” Ephesians 4:4-6
“Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only [monos] God” 1 Timothy 1:17
“which He will bring about at the proper timeHe who is the blessed and only [monos] Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone [monos] possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.” 1 Timothy 6:16
“You believe that God is one [hen]. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.” James 2:19
“For certain persons deny our only [monos] Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” Jude 4
“the only [monos] God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.” Jude 25
Blah blah blah, we can do this all day. The ultimate source is the 1st commandment. Written on a stone tablet by God himself. Given to Moses by God directly. Stored in the ark of the covenant. Argue with God. You seem to know better what he meant than he did. Or is your argument that he is just a poor writer that can’t get a point across clearly?
You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you
Pay attention to all that I have said to you, and make no mention of the names of other gods, nor let it be heard on your lips.
They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded.
And Joshua said to all the people, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, Long ago, your fathers lived beyond the Euphrates, Terah, the father of Abraham and of Nahor; and they served other gods.
And if you do not turn aside from any of the words that I command you today, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
“I said your god is idiocy.”
Well thanks for clearing that up for me. That’s much more christian of you...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.