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To: SuzyQue
Dimocrats are counting on us having this type of discussion, and they will use it to club us over the head and reelect the big 0.

We need to stay far, far away from the religious arguments, and stay with the unConstitutionality of the the whole thing.

Quite a few protestant FReepers are rubbing their hands in glee over the Catholic issue of contraception. They fail to recognize the magnitude of the Religious freedom aspect. To paraphrase several comments I have received; You reap what you sow. I keep reiterating that if the Catholic Church loses on this then their respective churches will fall even faster.

63 posted on 02/16/2012 2:30:07 AM PST by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: verga
"I keep reiterating that if the Catholic Church loses on this then their respective churches will fall even faster. "
For well over half of those non-Catholics who call themselves Christian, "Fall from what?". While there are vocal Fundamentalists here on FR and while Southern Baptists can almost all be relied on to be trying to follow Christ, what of the majority?

If this isn't successfully framed as a moral issue it isn't going to do any better campaigns to guarantee real freedom of speech on college campuses does. Fundamentalists by and large don't think they even need a church or any sort of fellowship. The larger denominations mostly already ordain queers, marry queers one to another, don't have a problem with contraception or abortion, and are in no way averse to the basic premise that contraception should be a part of insurance policies. Some portion of them may not like the idea of the government mandating this or that aspect of health-care and may realize that this is really a battle over the First Amendment, but they can hardly "fall" to something they embrace.

But still, while possibly concerned with the Constitution they're not at all concerned about Christianity being stomped on because in what they claim is Christianity everything is permissible. They really believe that if it feels good do it because if it feels good God intended it for our enjoyment. Etc, and so on, mitigated only by what's not popular at the moment rather than by moral teaching from the Bible. For example, rather than say anything at all about theology, several people reacted to my becoming Catholic with, "how can you join a Church that is against contraception".

So, fall from what? Obama wants to establish a State religion and he won't have any shortage of support from Catholics in name only and those who say they are Christian but who remain within the mainstream denominations that constitute the majority of non-Catholic Christians.

About 1/3 of Catholics plus 2/3 of non-Catholic Christians are quite happy with Barry dictating morality to the Catholic Church and anyone else who doesn't subscribe to the "progressive" Christianity of most churches. What does 1/3 of Catholics plus 2/3 of non-Catholics amount to as a percentage of the population? That combined group is already a party to something other than Christianity no matter what they prefer to call themselves and would be more than happy to see a State religion established the same way it was established in England, France, and so on, throughout history. In addition, there are plenty of Fundies and CINOs who are always happy to see anyone attack the Catholic Church and while they may see this as a violation of the First Amendment, a good many of them won't speak up. Overall, I doubt 51% of the population see this as a First Amendment issue worth stepping up and speaking up over.

JMHO

65 posted on 02/16/2012 5:36:22 AM PST by Rashputin (Obama stark, raving, mad, and even his security people know it.)
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To: verga

All of that may well be true, but, again, what does it have to do with the constitutionality of funding or banning contraceptives? Why is this issue being inserted into this argument? Why are you buying it?


68 posted on 02/16/2012 6:37:09 AM PST by SuzyQue
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