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[Why I Am Catholic]: Because I Love the Bible [Catholic and Open]
Patheos.comYIMCatholic ^ | August 30, 2010 | Frank Weathers

Posted on 04/16/2012 4:21:51 PM PDT by Salvation

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To: boatbums; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; count-your-change; ...

And I’m a Christian because I love Jesus.


51 posted on 04/17/2012 7:41:19 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; CynicalBear
“If he will not listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector.” Not churches, THE church. Singular.

Which does not by default mean the RCC. There is only one church which is why the word is not plural in the passage.

The church is a body, a living organism - the body of Christ. It's an organism, not an organization.

52 posted on 04/17/2012 7:48:03 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Cronos
‘Twas never so.

The Roman Catholic Church never killed anyone for heresy?

53 posted on 04/17/2012 7:54:43 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: metmom

-— Which does not by default mean the RCC.-—

True. To find the visible Church that Christ established, one has to study early Christian history. As Cardinal Newman said, “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”

-—There is only one church which is why the word is not plural in the passage.
The church is a body, a living organism - the body of Christ. It’s an organism, not an organization.-—

This is partially true, but the Church is also a visible organization. The problem with the idea that the church lacks organization is that it contradicts the data of Scripture. How can Christians take their disagreements to an invisible or nebulous Church, with as many contradictory doctrines as members? Christ’s command to take our disputes to the church would be impossible to follow.

But Christ cannot issue empty commands, because He is Truth.


54 posted on 04/17/2012 8:21:03 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Salvation; CynicalBear; metmom; boatbums; caww; Hacksaw
For "education's sake"?

"At Mass today, for example, the gospel reading is from Luke and begins like this,"

"Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had grown up and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day. He stood up to read and was handed a scroll from the prophet Isaiah. (Luke 4:16-17).

What the passage doesn't say of course, is that He could possibly, on a different day of the week, or on a different day of the liturgical calendar, have been handed a scroll from Tobit, Sirach,......

What the passage also doesn't say, of course, is that "And when he had opened the book, HE FOUND THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS WRITTEN...". Jesus Christ CHOSE what was read in His FIRST SERMON. Not only that, but He CHOSE HOW it was read, if you will take the time to study it, "for education's sake", you know.

He was quoting from Isaiah 61:1,2.

"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings, unto the meek; he hath sent me to blind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound: TO PROCLAIM THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD, AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD; TO COMFORT ALL THAT MOURN;"

But what does Luke 4:17-21 say?

"...The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor: he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD. AND HE CLOSED THE BOOK, and he gave it again to the minister, and SAT DOWN...".

WHY didn't He finish verse 2 of Isaiah 61:2? He stopped mid-verse and left out "..and the day of vengeance of our God;..."

Instead of saving this for a long time, studying it would have been far more beneficial. He didn't finish Isaiah 61:2 because the comma separating "to preach the acceptable year of the Lord" and "the day of vengeance of our God" is separated by 2000 years, so far. It's the difference in His first coming, His earthly ministry, and His second coming, to set up His Millenial Kingdom. "The day of vengeance of our God is of course, the Tribulation. One comma separates two time periods.

If you understood 2 Tim. 2:15, you would understand that easily. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. NOT truth from a lie. But truth from truth. The "acceptable year of the Lord" is truth. "The day of vengeance of our God" is also truth. But they have been separated by about 2000 years, so far.

So tell me again how much you believe the "whole Bible".

55 posted on 04/17/2012 8:24:58 AM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: WPaCon

Hey, we aim to get them all.

The reason it seems that these things are directed at Protestants is that, for the most part, they already know the basics and further of Christianity. So the question isn’t “Are you Christian?”, but “Do you have all the gifts that God has given us in this world?”


56 posted on 04/17/2012 11:44:24 AM PDT by tiki
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To: WPaCon
With Atheists agnostics etc.... they are (or claim to be) non beleivers. At least with Protestants they already have a starting point.

I have tried with Agnostics and Atheists on several occasions and every time you are making a point they resort to "Well there is no god so you are wrong"

With out that initial point you are just wasting your breath.

57 posted on 04/17/2012 2:30:14 PM PDT by verga (Party like it is 1773)
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To: annalex
the "Apocryphal" books would NEVER have been included in the temple collections of the Torah, the Psalms and Proverbs and the Prophets - major and minor - the Jewish canon

Nor are we Jews.

Go back and read the context of the comment. We are not Jews, is correct, but my comment had to do with the author's imagination that Jesus "may" have read from the Apocryphal books when he read from Isaiah in the temple at sabbath. Can you at least concede that point or is it more important to contradict a "Protestant"?

What deserves to be slammed is obviously false statements posted as truth just because a "Catholic" said them.

58 posted on 04/17/2012 4:30:36 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
Yes, you are correct.

He could possibly, on a different day of the week, or on a different day of the liturgical calendar, have been handed a scroll from Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, or 1 & 2 Maccabees. These books were in the scrolls too, when God walked upon the earth. I don’t know for sure, but like I said, I’m not a biblical scholar.

This indeed is unlikely as the readings at worship were done in Hebrew and from the Hebrew Bible. But the author admits not being a scholar right away.

59 posted on 04/17/2012 4:48:39 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
They don't know that there are 22 Catholic Churches, do they?

These are FR links.

The Rites of the Catholic Church [Catholic Caucus]
One and Many Churches (origins of the Church)
THE RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- There are many!
(Cardinal) Newman on Rites and Ceremonies

60 posted on 04/17/2012 5:17:29 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Hacksaw

Sole authority?

The Mass composed of the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist has more Sacred Scripture in it that I have ever heard when attending a service of another denomination.

So why are you saying that Catholics don’t have Scripture — we do. We just don’t interpret to meet our own needs as you do. We accept and obey the interpretation of the Magisterium, Cathecism, priest, Bishop and Pope.


61 posted on 04/17/2012 5:26:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Hacksaw

Have you ever looked at a Roman Missal — the book the priest uses? It used to be called the Sacramentary. Nearly everything he says is noted from the Bible. book, chapter and verse.

If you have a friend, ask him or her to take you in to talk with a Catholic priest about all the Scripture in the Mass.


62 posted on 04/17/2012 5:28:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Biggirl
>>In the short term it takes place it does not seem good, but it is worked out to be good in the long term.<<

Not for the Romans, or for Judas, or for Satan for sure.

63 posted on 04/17/2012 6:29:35 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: smvoice

Once again you nailed smvoice.


64 posted on 04/17/2012 6:36:18 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: tiki

Plus also a lot of Protestants have come home to Rome.


65 posted on 04/17/2012 6:51:14 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: annalex
This indeed is unlikely as the readings at worship were done in Hebrew and from the Hebrew Bible. But the author admits not being a scholar right away.

Thank you. That was exactly my point. I wonder how many other people reading articles such as this do not know it either?

66 posted on 04/17/2012 7:41:31 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

The author was making a correct broader point: that the Septuagint was the source of inspirational reading for the 1 century Jews. He overshot it a little bit claiming that it was not only inspirational reading but liturgical reading.

Certainly low-church Protestants should not even notice the distinction because they have no liturgy.


67 posted on 04/18/2012 5:30:55 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Biggirl; CynicalBear; boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; svcw; caww; smvoice

But that logic, since most of the Divine writings were established as Scripture before there ever was a church in Rome, and as unlike that entity, Scripture specifically states the Jews were the stewards of Holy Writ, (Rm. 3:2; 9:4) and to whom promises of perpetuation and guidance were given, then all should have submitted to them.

And as, like Rome, they presumed these promises and historical decent promised a level of veracity and perpetuation that forbid any dissent or replacement, thus they challenged the itinerant preacher from Nazareth, “By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?” (see Mk. 11:27-33)

To which the Lord required that they tell them by whose authority the Baptist acted, which they refused to answer on political grounds, though he also was rejected by them, as Rome rejects any who have not her sanction.

The transcendent issue is one of authority. Why would or should seekers of Truth follow this itinerant preacher from Nazareth who had not the sanction of the historical heavyweights and turned over the tables of their power?

The answer is that, in contrast to them, the Lord Jesus established His claims on Scripture, in word and in the manifest power of God it affirms, as did the apostles and early church. ( Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12)

And the most critical aspect of this basis of authority is that the of the gospel of grace, and manifest regeneration by repentant faith in it, and which kind of living effectual faith the church relies upon for its members and for storming the gates of Hell.

And which affirms that the church is that of the living God, (1Tim. 1:15) versus its institutionalized counterpart, Catholic or Protestant. “For the kingdom of God is not in word [self declaration], but in power, ” (1 Cori. 4:20) by “manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.” (2 Corinthians 4:2)


68 posted on 04/18/2012 8:13:25 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: Salvation; Colorado Cowgirl; CynicalBear; boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; svcw; caww; smvoice

<James also tells us that faith without works is empty — nothing.<

And yet the Reformers preached strongly that the only a kind of faith which appropriates justification is one that will effect obedience toward its object: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Reformation_faith_works.html

Meanwhile, today it is RCs which come in near to last in commitment and upholding moral values in survey after survey: \http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html


69 posted on 04/18/2012 8:13:25 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: annalex; CynicalBear; boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; svcw; caww; smvoice

<The modern Protestant translations are particularly awful.<

I also criticize them, but don’t forget your own official American Bible: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Scripture.html#Remarks


70 posted on 04/18/2012 8:13:28 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; CynicalBear; All

Heads up:...’Chuck Colson’ soon to be with the Lord:

It is with a heavy, but hopeful heart that I share with you that it appears our friend, brother and founder will soon be home with the Lord,” Jim Liske, CEO of Prison Fellowship Ministries, which Colson founded, said in a statement.
“Chuck’s condition took a decided turn yesterday, and the doctors advised Patty and the family to gather by his bedside,” Liske said, referring to Colson’s wife.

Colson, 80, underwent surgery this month to remove a pool of clotted blood on the surface of his brain.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/18/watergate-figure-chuck-colson-reportedly-near-death/?hpt=hp_t3


71 posted on 04/18/2012 10:43:28 AM PDT by caww
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To: SumProVita

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2872933/posts?page=71#71


72 posted on 04/18/2012 10:49:20 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: daniel1212

I can tell that you may not know that there are 22 churches within the Catholic Church.

When you use ‘RC’ it shows that you may not know all the other Catholic Churches. Do you?

The Latin Rite (or RC) as you put it does not speak for all Catholic Churches.


73 posted on 04/18/2012 10:52:50 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: daniel1212

Good post, daniel, authority is what this is all about. I just posted this on another thread about Constantine. He was the authority sitting upon his throne ruling over the Bishops at Nicea. Not exactly in the same vein as your post, but I think you can catch the drift:
............................

Catholics claim the church conquered the Roman Empire, but in reality the Roman Empire conquered the church - by making the church over into the image of the Roman Empire.

Beginning with Constantine, the church changed its nature, entered its great apostasy, became a political organization in the spirit and pattern of Imperial Rome, and took a nose-dive into a thousand years of Papal tyranny and abominations.

The Imperial Church became an entirely different institution from the persecuted church of the first centuries. In its ambition to rule and subjugate all to the Pope it became the persecutor.

Worship, at first very simple,was developed into elaborate, stately, imposing ceremonies having all the outward splendor that formerly belonged to pagan temples.

Ministers became priests. The term “priest”was not applied to Christian ministers before a.d.200. It was borrowed from the Jewish system, and from pagan priesthood. The Catholic priesthood eventually became celibate, forbidden to marry by the law of the Imperial Church.

Conversion of the pagan masses filled the church with all kinds of pagan practices and philosophies. Various Greek and Oriental philosophies became amalgamated with Christianity.

Was all this Constantine’s fault? Not really, he only did what Emperors normally do, he took charge. We have all the weak-backed compromising Bishops, who allowed Constantine to sit in the place of authority over them at Nicea, who sold out the true church to statism, transforming it into an Imperial church, to thank.


74 posted on 04/18/2012 11:02:25 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: Salvation; CynicalBear; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; Quix; wmfights; ...

The statement was that “the RCC does not have scripture as its central authority,” which is a fact. Many of her teachings are from Tradition, and while she may invoke texts to support them (though rarely infallibly defining them), that is only an interpretation, and what gives their claims authority is not the weight of Scriptural warrant, but the premise that Rome is uniquely assuredly infallible (conditionally).

Thus as a another RC web apologist just told me, “We do not need to prove her perpetual virginity or anything else about her from Scripture.”

And while the RC has great liberty to interpret Scripture to support Rome (as they interpret her), and will use it as if it were the supreme authority, their goal is to bring one to provide implicit assent of faith in what the assuredly infallible magisterium states, (providing they know it has spoken infallibly, which can be a matter of interpretation).

And while RCs attack evangelicals as having no infallible interpreter of their supreme doctrinal authority, and making fallible decisions as to what to believe, the RC does not have an assuredly infallible interpreter of their supreme doctrinal authority, but has made a fallible decision to trust it.


75 posted on 04/18/2012 11:33:27 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: Salvation; boatbums; metmom; RnMomof7; svcw; caww; smvoice; CynicalBear
I can tell that you may not know that there are 22 churches within the Catholic Church.

When you use ‘RC’ it shows that you may not know all the other Catholic Churches. Do you?

The Latin Rite (or RC) as you put it does not speak for all Catholic Churches.

Thank you for confirming that (and your considerate manner), and while usually the use of “RC” is warranted as Roman Catholicism is what is being promoted in particular, and in order to especially distinguish between the EOs who dissent from things at issue, in this case i should have just used Catholics, as the surveys which the links reference do not all make that distinction.

However, as the percentage of of other Catholics in the US is very very small, it is justified to say that these stats are indicative what Roman Catholics attest to.

And I certainly did know there are other Catholic churches,








Sources: http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2009/12/special-pleading-of-sola-ecclesia-ists.html (left) http://www.friesian.com/popes.htm#popes (right)





76 posted on 04/18/2012 11:36:03 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: sasportas
"I just posted this on another thread about Constantine."

And I just posted this in response:

Beginning with Constantine the Church was no longer an outlaw organization and being a member was no longer punishable by death. Changes like that tend to change public behaviors.

I never cease to be depressed when those who claim to be Christian see their fellow Christians as the source of all evil and a more worthy target for their hatred and vitriol than radical Islam, atheistic secularism, humanism, modernism, and Satanism. I pray that those who do and see differences in doctrine as somehow demonic and intentionally sinful as opposed to simple error. Those who hold those thoughts are demonstrably not Christians.

Jesus' repeated command to us is to love one another and the definition of love is the desire for good for the other simply for the sake of the other. If we only love those who love us or are like us it is not love but a form of egotism.

As St. Thomas Aquinas taught, the greatest love is found in the shared love a transcendental third thing. For example, we may both like each other based upon nothing more than a shared like of the same baseball or football team. The greater the love for that transcendental third, the greater the bond between us. Christian marriage needs to be based upon a greater love for the bond of marriage and the "us" formed than for the love of our spouse or self. If we both express the ultimate love for God, we should therefore have a love between us that transcends the differences of definition, doctrine and the punctuation in Koine Greek idioms that too many choose to divide us.

"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you." - John 15:12

77 posted on 04/18/2012 11:37:27 AM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: sasportas; metmom; boatbums

Thanks. Never saw you before in these exchanges. Member since 2003!

“But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. “ (Galatians 4:29)

Sadly, the use of physical force to conquer theological foes is something some of the early Reformers followed Rome in, and needed to unlearn.


78 posted on 04/18/2012 11:41:51 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: Salvation
We just don’t interpret to meet our own needs as you do

Where did you get that lie from ' meet the needs '? Who is deceiving you?

We accept and obey the interpretation of the Magisterium, Cathecism, priest, Bishop and Pope.

GOD'S OWN, HIS church, obey THE WORD, as revealed by The HOLY SPIRIT, NOT man, NEVER man! Satan uses man to deceive others, he can't use THE HOLY SPIRIT. God's Word is HOLY SPIRIT breathe, IT'S HIS WORD.

79 posted on 04/18/2012 11:43:12 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Natural Law
This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you

Love them enough to tell them the TRUTH.

GOD'S WORD ALONE REIGNS, JESUS IS THE WORD.

WHO would REJECT that love?

80 posted on 04/18/2012 11:50:44 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: sasportas
by making the church over into the image of the Roman Empire.

Exactly! Right down to their dress style, bow to man and kiss the ring!

81 posted on 04/18/2012 11:56:11 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
"GOD'S WORD ALONE REIGNS, JESUS IS THE WORD."

Jesus is the Logos. That does not translate simply as "word" or even words. He is so very much more than what you can glean from carefully selected versus of St. Paul.

What ever your motivation, let your actions be done in love. If your will is to do that of the Holy Spirit ensure that the Fruit of the Spirit is clearly evident in it.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." - Gal 5:22-23

"The Excellence of Love"

"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

"Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love." - 1 Corinth 13

82 posted on 04/18/2012 12:11:05 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law
Jesus is the Logos. That does not translate simply as "word" or even words.

There is NOTHING " simply " when speaking of JESUS!

p>Don't quote Scripture unless it REIGNS with you because that's only 'using' it for your agenda!

Now back to the response that seemed to ruffle your feathers.

Love them enough to tell them the TRUTH. GOD'S WORD ALONE REIGNS, JESUS IS THE WORD

83 posted on 04/18/2012 12:34:20 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212

I have posted on FR in the past, but it has been quite a while. Left with no choice for POTUS but a Muslim, a Mormon, a Catholic, or an apostate Protestant, I haven’t had much enthusiasm for things political. A depressing state of affairs, the way I see it.

Then the FR religious forum with its total domination of Catholic themed threads, doesn’t help much. For a conservative site, its disproportionate flood of RC threads certainly doesn’t reflect the truth. Conservative Protestants outnumber by far in this country the paltry percentage of conservative Catholics.

So, yes, I haven’t made FR posts in a while. On this thread, however, for what its worth, I threw in my two cents.


84 posted on 04/18/2012 12:46:35 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: Biggirl

I have to tell this because I am so proud of our town.

There is a well known and well respected and loved man who is dying of prostate cancer and he had been in Chicago receiving some new treatment that didn’t work and he doesn’t have long to live. I think he’s only about 55.

His wife was home because she has osteoporosis and had broken her pelvis. She couldn’t get there to be with him as he is dying and they couldn’t afford to fly him home for 17K on a medi-flight. Our home town bank immediately gave them a loan and put out the SOS for donations and raised 22K in 1 1/2 hours.

Now for the rest of the story. He got home Monday. He was raised Catholic and became Baptist about 20 years ago. Yesterday he called for the priest to come and give him Last Rites. I am sure that I’m not the only one who asked God to give him that gift but God answered ASAP.


85 posted on 04/18/2012 1:06:43 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Biggirl

I have to tell this because I am so proud of our town.

There is a well known and well respected and loved man who is dying of prostate cancer and he had been in Chicago receiving some new treatment that didn’t work and he doesn’t have long to live. I think he’s only about 55.

His wife was home because she has osteoporosis and had broken her pelvis. She couldn’t get there to be with him as he is dying and they couldn’t afford to fly him home for 17K on a medi-flight. Our home town bank immediately gave them a loan and put out the SOS for donations and raised 22K in 1 1/2 hours.

Now for the rest of the story. He got home Monday. He was raised Catholic and became Baptist about 20 years ago. Yesterday he called for the priest to come and give him Last Rites. I am sure that I’m not the only one who asked God to give him that gift but God answered ASAP.


86 posted on 04/18/2012 1:06:43 PM PDT by tiki
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To: sasportas

That thou sayest is true. But as the Empire declines, the focus must be on the body of Christ being the alternative, and unlike the world.


87 posted on 04/18/2012 1:14:37 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: tiki

I’m not surprised at what this apostate Baptist you mentioned has done. Signs of these apostate times. Enough to make fire brand stalwarts like John Wycliffe, the Anabaptists, John Huss, John Knox, and Ian Paisley, turn over in their graves.

A great many of these Baptists and Evangelicals wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them in the face. Sad to say, most of what is preached in Protestant pulpits nowadays is milk toast.


88 posted on 04/18/2012 1:24:52 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: presently no screen name
"Don't quote Scripture unless it REIGNS with you because that's only 'using' it for your agenda!"

Jesus reigns with me, Scripture is but a reflection of Him. I will continue to quote that reflection everytime it is relevant and profitable, thank you.

"Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:22-26

89 posted on 04/18/2012 1:29:57 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: sasportas

Even now, the Catholic population is growing in the USA and it is not as paltry as you say.


90 posted on 04/18/2012 1:32:47 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Natural Law
Jesus reigns with me

Jesus is The Word. You can't separate what is ONE.

Scripture is but a reflection of Him

GOD'S WORD is NOT a reflection! Reflections aren't alive and don't have power. Don't think you can EVER reduce it away. It ALWAYS was and will ALWAYS will be!

"For the Word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires".

91 posted on 04/18/2012 1:47:40 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: daniel1212

**And while the RC has great liberty to interpret Scripture**

We are not YOPIOS critters, sorry.


92 posted on 04/18/2012 1:56:08 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: daniel1212
And for your education:

The Rites of the Catholic Church [Catholic Caucus]
One and Many Churches (origins of the Church)
THE RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- There are many!
(Cardinal) Newman on Rites and Ceremonies

93 posted on 04/18/2012 1:57:22 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: daniel1212

This post must come from a Proetestant or other denominational website, for it, too, uses ‘RCC’.

Unlelarned blokes aren’t they?


94 posted on 04/18/2012 1:58:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: presently no screen name; sasportas

This Roman Empire thing is hilarious. the Romans killed Christ for the Jews.

In no way is the Catholic Church any part, or was it any part of roman government. Under Roman government, Catholics were killed by Romans, no less.


95 posted on 04/18/2012 2:01:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: tiki

What a great testimony and story.

Peole on their deathbeds, somehow recognize their mistakes and call for the priest.

Another person saved!


96 posted on 04/18/2012 2:04:45 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
the Romans killed Christ for the Jews.

Wrong. Everyone that ever lived did - He died for all because all need salvation. The Romans weren't doing any favors for the Jews - how wrong to even repeat that deception.

The Romans couldn't do squat to JESUS.. . "Do you think I cannot call on My Father, and HE will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?" Matt 26:53

You seem to forget JESUS came, specifically, to die for all.

97 posted on 04/18/2012 2:35:45 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Salvation; boatbums; metmom; svcw; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; sasportas; ...

Then you must have closed your eyes when Catholics contrive to support their traditions, in which the parameters of Rome, which rarely has infallible interpreted verses (how many being a matter of interpretation), yet allows such things as one RC contending that Ps. 93:1 teaches geocentrism and another heliocentrism, or that no one else but Jesus and Mary are said to be “highly favored,” “full of grace,” (Lk. 1:28) while another sees that in Acts 6:8; (cf. Eph. 1:6), or that 1Cor. 3 is speaking about purgatory, and another only uses it to affirm that fire consumes, or for one to contend that Rv. 12 cannot be speaking about Israel and another believe it is (at least primarily) etc.

And the lack of comprehensiveness or perspicuity of the magisterium not only allows disagreement about Scripture, but about what certain teachings of the magisterium mean, such as whether Lumen Gentium means sincere former RCs like myself can be saved outside formal submission to Catholicism, as well as multitudes more things that are not clear or not officially addressed.

And you yourself provided an example of this, as the “great liberty to interpret Scripture” (even with a magisterium) comes from a far more noted apologist than yourself:

“The liberty of the Scripture interpreter remains extensive. Taking due consideration of the factors that influence proper exegesis, the Catholic Bible interpreter has the liberty to adopt any interpretation of a passage that is not excluded with certainty by other passages of Scripture, by the judgment of the magisterium, by the Church Fathers, or by the analogy of faith. That is a great deal of liberty, as only a few interpretations will be excluded with certainty by any of the four factors circumscribing the interpreter’s liberty” Jimmy Akin,, Catholic Answers (http://archive.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101bt.asp)

Meanwhile, rather than a free for all, evangelical-type denominations and churches for whom Scripture is paramount typically have their own magisterium (as does Rome) and overall affirm the Apostle’s Creed and or Scripturally substantiated conflating statements defining who God is and what Christ did and related basic truths, especially the primacy of Scripture and salvation by grace to save the damned and destitute sinners, (vs. some hope in earned credits and or the power of the church), under the premise that Scripture is infallible, and which magisterium typically requires assent of these truths by members.

And which common consent is manifest, among other ways, in a shared contention against those who deny these common essentials (“cults”), as well as against certain traditions of Rome.

These evans also manifest a great degree of transdenominational fellowship, but do differ in many things and have formal divisions, but so does Catholicism, the differences being a matter of degrees, while under sola ecclesia is seen the greatest aberrations, as this is what cults effectively operate under (the “Living prophet” and the WTS being as infallible popes).


98 posted on 04/18/2012 2:47:01 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: Salvation

The second apparently comes from an Orthodox man. As for as RC, as said, it is often necessary to specify. Do you object to any use of term “Roman church?”


99 posted on 04/18/2012 3:40:11 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: presently no screen name; sasportas

Pope Boniface VIII:

“It is I who am Caesar; the Sovereign Pontiff is the only King of the Romans”, as he rode thru the city, carrying sword, globe and sceptre. (”Rome and its story”, p. 241, by Welbore St. Clair Baddeley, Lina Duff Gordon)

“To the succession of the Caesars came the succession of the Pontiffs in Rome. When Constantine left Rome, he gave his seat to the Pontiff.” – Lablanca, Professor of History, University of Rome.


100 posted on 04/18/2012 3:45:14 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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