Posted on 04/19/2012 11:58:25 AM PDT by NYer
I saw an advance copy of a survey by William J. Byron and Charles Zech, which will appear in the April 30th edition of “America” magazine.
It was conducted at the request of David O’Connell, the bishop of Trenton, and its focus was very simple: it endeavored to discover why Catholics have left the church. No one denies that a rather substantive number of Catholics have taken their leave during the past 20 years, and Byron and Zech wanted to find out why. They did so in the most direct way possible and asked those who had quit.
The answers they got were, in many ways, predictable. Lots of people cited the church’s teachings on divorce and re-marriage, gay marriage, contraception, and the ordination of women. These matters, of course, have been exhaustively discussed in the years following Vatican II, and I’d be willing to bet that anyone, even those vaguely connected to the Church, could rehearse the arguments on both sides of those issues. But there just isn’t a lot that the church can do about them. No bishop or pastor could make a policy adjustment and announce that divorced and re-married people can receive communion or that a gay couple can come to the altar to be married or a woman present herself for ordination.
What struck me about the survey, however, was that many of the issues that led people to leave the church are indeed matters that can be addressed. Many of the respondents commented that they left because of “bad customer relations.” One woman said that she felt “undervalued by the church” and found “no mentors.” Many more said that their pastors were “arrogant, distant, aloof, and insensitive,” and still others said that their experiences over the phone with parish staffers were distinctly negative. Now I fully understand that parish priests and lay ministers are on the front lines and hence are the ones who often have to say “no” when a parishioner asks for something that just can’t be granted. Sometimes the recipient of that “no” can all too facilely accuse the one who says it as arrogant or indifferent. Nevertheless, the survey can and should be a wake-up call to church leaders—both clerical and non-clerical—that simple kindness, compassion, and attention go a rather long way. I distinctly remember the advice that my first pastor—a wonderful and pastorally skillful priest—gave to the parish secretary: “for many people, you are the first contact they have with the Catholic Church; you exercise, therefore, an indispensable ministry.” One respondent to the survey observed that whenever he asked a priest about a controversial issue, he “got rules, and not an invitation to sit down and talk.” Unfair? Perhaps. But every priest, even when ultimately he has to say “no,” can do so in the context of a relationship predicated upon love and respect.
A second major concern that can and should be addressed is that of bad preaching. Again and again, people said that they left the church because homilies were “boring, irrelevant, poorly prepared,” or “delivered in an impenetrable accent.” Again, speaking as someone who is called upon to give sermons all the time, I realize how terribly difficult it is to preach, how it involves skill in public speaking, attention to the culture, expertise in biblical interpretation, and sensitivity to the needs and interests of an incredibly diverse audience. That said, homilists can make a great leap forward by being attentive to one fact: sermons become boring in the measure that they don’t propose something like answers to real questions. All of the biblical exegesis and oratorical skill in the world will be met with a massive “so what?” if the preacher has not endeavored to correlate the “answers” he provides with the “questions” that beguile the hearts of the people to whom he speaks. Practically every Gospel involves an encounter between Jesus and a person—Peter, Mary Magdalene, Nicodemus, Zacchaeus, etc.—who is questioning, wondering, suffering, or seeking. An interesting homily identifies that longing and demonstrates, concretely, how Jesus fulfills it. When the homily both reminds people how thirsty they are and provides water to quench the thirst, people will listen.
A third eminently correctable problem is one that I will admit I had never thought about before reading this survey. Many of the respondents commented that, after they left the church, no one from the parish contacted them or reached out to them in any way. Now again, I can anticipate and fully understand the objections from pastoral people: many Catholic parishes are huge—upwards of three or four thousand families—and staffs are small. Yet, just as major corporations, serving millions of people, attend carefully to lost customers, so Catholic parishes should prioritize an outreach to those who have drifted (or stormed) away. A phone call, a note, an e-mail, a pastoral visit—anything that would say, “We’ve noticed you’re not coming to Mass anymore. Can we help? Can you tell us what, if anything, we’ve done wrong? We’d love to see you back with us.”
The problem of Catholics leaving the church is, obviously, serious and complex, and anyone who would suggest an easy solution is naïve. However, having listened to a representative sample of those who have left, parishes, priests, and church administrators might take some relatively simple and direct steps that would go a long way toward ameliorating the situation.
Penitence is a Catholic construct. It has no Scriptural basis.
As one grows in their faith and God reveals more areas in their lives where there is sin, then, yes, they do need to repent of those, but that is not a matter of salvation. Salvation is already a done deal.
Are you not familiar with Romans 7?
Romans 7:1-6 Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
Romans 7:13-25 13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
You know, the Pharisees thought the way most Catholics did, that by keeping the Law they were somehow pleasing God and earning salvation.
But they were wrong because God looks on the heart. IN spite of David's sin of adultery and the murder of Uriah, God still called him *a man after God's own heart*.
You know, really, God does not expect perfection out of us. He knows what we're made of and what we have to deal with.
If our heart is right with God, that's what He wants. He doesn't demand the perfection out of us that the Catholic church does.
The Catholic church really needs to learn what the loving heart of God is all about, and it's not about keeping people in bondage to rules and regulations and going to confession and saying the rosary, and doing the sacraments and penance, and holy water and all sorts of other things that it teaches are necessary to earn favor with God.
What a taskmaster Catholics serve.
Read the Bible and learn to know the God of Scripture.
Jesus set the bar even higher that just outward keeping of the Law, demanding a right heart attitude.
If the Mosaic Law didn't save because men couldn't keep it, what kind of Jesus do you preach who would make it even more impossible for men to be saved by works and then demand that we do it?
Nobody said he is or that he claimed that.
Good grief, I don't know where you get your ideas from about what we're saying but it sure isn't from reading our posts or Scripture.
Nobody said he is or that he claimed that.
Good grief, I don't know where you get your ideas from about what we're saying but it sure isn't from reading our posts or Scripture.
You are correct inasmuch as it is not Scripture. It is from the posts from you guys. Did you not inform me that the Gospels were for the Jews only?
There is no discussion for the line is drawn as God's Word tells those that believes HIS WORD ALONE REIGNS .. "For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?". NONE!
Thank You God, as YOUR WORD ALONE reigns. And those in darkness have their man made doctrines and traditions.
We serve the Lord God Almighty, not the image in the mirror. Nor do we serve what we extract from our navels. God truly is an awesome God. He is not buddy Christ whom we swap beers with or borrow lawnmowers from on alternate weekends.
Penitence is a regret or remorse for wrongdoing. It, along with confession, constituted repentance. Do you ever regret your sins or, in your theology, is there no need?
"He doesn't demand the perfection out of us that the Catholic church does."
We are called to become Christ-like. Is Jesus not perfect?
"Read the Bible and learn to know the God of Scripture."
Do you presume that I do not? I encourage you to not simply sit down with your bible and a cup of coffee and bag of cookies and start reading, but rather to learn and practice Lectio Divina as the Early Church Fathers did. If you begin with the Gospels and practice it diligently you will hear the voice of God through the human authors.
The Logos reigns. Scripture testifies to that, but God is not limited to words in a book.
Oh, that's a good one, lol. Reams and reams of veritable Greek choruses posted here from Semi-Chrysanthemum, Cryptosporidium and who knows who else, not one iota of which is inspired scripture, but it's Protestants who are impressed by quantity.
There are times when it's tedious to wade through FR because of such yards-long scrolls being posted here.
That's very funny, MarkBSnr.
If you remember, you were the one who posted to the effect that Paul, simply because of quantity, was the most valid.
That appears to be an issue from your perspective, not mine, MarkBSnr.
I’m not the one who denigrates an Apostle of God.
You are, when it comes to Paul.
I cannot describe this behavior as anything other than unhinged, coming from a professing Christian such as yourself.
You should be ashamed.
It is Protestants who tell us we must "rightly divide Scripture" but when Catholics go further apply the advanced calculus of reason to further reveal the infinite detail of God's perfection we are told we go too far.
The problem is not what rubric we do or do not use, it is that so few of us go far enough to complete the circle and return to the simple truth of the Gospels and the Two Greatest Commandments.
If we love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls and love one another as He has loved us Faith, Grace and Works will abound and His kingdom will be on earth as it is in heaven.
May the peace of Christ be upon you.
Since you cannot Freepmail while on mute, if you wish to apologize to the Admin Moderator or Jim Robinson then I suggest you simply ping them.
BTW, the potential for over-the-top come-backs in emotionally charged religious debate is why even mild potty language is not tolerated on the Religion Forum.
Addition and multiplication are not dividing. Advanced calculus based upon such fundamentally erroneous assumptions will itself be erroneous.
Your parting wish contains a lovely sentiment, and may you too experience the peace of God in your life, but the phrasology used sounded too uncomfortably like the Muslim "peace be upon him" for my taste.
No where are we commanded to divide the Word from anything other than that which is false or of the Old Law. We have been released from the Old Law and are to live in the Spirit (Rom 7:6). The attempts to parse Scripture between what is for the Jews and what is for the Gentiles is not Scriptural.
Now something considerably less Muslim - Pax et bonum.
Nice non-apology. Shall you describe the nails sliding in next?
No. You posted to the effect that Paul should be paid the most attention to because he wrote the most of what wound up in Scripture. Your perspective, not mine.
I’m not the one who denigrates an Apostle of God.
By treating Paul as a god, replacing Jesus? That to me is denegration - of the Lord God Almighty. I think that that is of higher concern than denegrating a man.
I cannot describe this behavior as anything other than unhinged, coming from a professing Christian such as yourself.
I only have your own posts to go by since I have no idea of who you are outside of FR.
You should be ashamed.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatae Mariae semper Virgini, beato Michaeli Archangelo, beato Ioanni Baptistae, sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo, et omnibus Sanctis, quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo et opere: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, beatum Michaelem Archangelum, beatum Ioannem Baptistam, sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum, et omnes Sanctos, orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen.
For your own sake forgive him and pray for him, he needs it. Forgiveness is not a simply a gift we give those who have sinned against us. It is a gift that Jesus has given us that imparts Grace on us and and frees us from the slavery of anger.
I certainly agree that all things must be done in the spirit of love so please don't construe my next comment as a personal attack.
If the Roman Catholic Church really teaches your viewpoint, then I do not see how, in light of the Inquisitions, Crusades and other persecutions of "heretics", it can then - when such actions are no longer "legal" - warn everybody to "let the doctrinal issues take care of themselves" with a straight face. It also contradicts Scriptural instructions for the man/woman of God to to be able to teach, preach the word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine (II Tim. 4:2) and hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it (Titus 1:9). We are also urged in Jude 1:3, "to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people". That is what most of us here are doing - contending for the faith, the faith that has been entrusted to ALL God's people so that souls are won to the Lord in the Biblical truth.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.