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To: metmom
"Sin, even willful sin, does not damn us or cause us to no longer be His children."

All future sins are not reconciled by declaring our Salvation or final judgment would not await any of us. Your interpretation is not substantiated by Scripture or the teachings of the Church from the first Pentecost until today.

Indeed, it is Jesus who saves us, but it is we who damn ourselves. "The root of sin is in the heart of man, in our free will. To the eyes of faith no evil is graver than sin and nothing has worse consequences for sinners themselves, for the Church, and for the whole world. We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him, but we cannot love God if we choose to gravely sin against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves.

All are called to Salvation and sufficient Grace exists for the Salvation of all, yet all are not saved. To gain Salvation we must cooperate with Grace. Failure, in our thoughts and our words, in what we do and what we fail to to to affirm God and cooperate with His Grace is a sin.

Sin is a conscious choice. To choose deliberately, both knowingly it and willingly, something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Sin and the burden of its consequences constantly threaten the gift of unity. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

"He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." - 1 John 3:15

221 posted on 04/21/2012 9:41:15 AM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law
All future sins are not reconciled by declaring our Salvation or final judgment would not await any of us. Your interpretation is not substantiated by Scripture or the teachings of the Church from the first Pentecost until today.

What the *church* has to say is totally irrelevant to what is reality. I believe God and what He told us in Scripture and if someone wants to continue to put themselves in bondage to works and legalism, that by all means is their prerogative, but I'm not going there again. Once was enough for me.

We sin because we are sinners. We are not sinners because we sin, as if, if we didn't sin, we'd be OK with God. The reason we can't get into heaven is that we are not pure, we're sinners. Until that is dealt with, by death, the penalty for sin, there is no way to enter.

We are not OK with God because of our sin nature. That nature has been dealt with on the cross. IN CHRIST, anyone who has put their trust in Him has already died and therefore the penalty of that sinful nature has been dealt with. I already have a place in heaven, not just reserved for me, but there now.

Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Galatians 2:19-21 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

2 Corinthians 5:17 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 6:1-11 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

John 10:25-29 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Anyone who doesn't know if they belong to Jesus most likely doesn't know Him and would or course, be unsure if they are saved. When someone has the Spirit of God living in them, they KNOW it. No one can have God's presence in his spirit and not know it.

We don't have to work to get saved (Ephesians 2) and we don't have to work to stay saved (Galatians 3).

The Catholic church teaches dealing with the sins, not dealing with the sinner. Forgiveness deals with the sins. Regeneration deals with the sinner and gives us fellowship with God again.

227 posted on 04/21/2012 12:32:01 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Natural Law; metmom
Please don't "snippet" hunt - what some constantly accuse others of doing. Here is that passage in context so we can see that John was certainly NOT contradicting Jesus, himself or other Scriptures but confirming what we have been saying all along:

I John 3
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

256 posted on 04/21/2012 4:54:37 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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