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To: Colofornian; windcliff; stylecouncilor
Genesis 2:24 (KJV which is official Mormon text) states: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

This singular sense also translates directly from the Hebrew where, I believe, that polygyny practiced in Torah was in gross error of that very scripture until the edict of Rabbeinu Gershom in the 11th century banned it's practice altogether.

But, would the rebuilding of The Temple which, by most Orthodox opinion, restore animal sacrifice (which I as an Old Testament believer yet decry as opposed to the Pharisaic evolution of modern prayer), and thus then continue this ancient practice as well? I would pray to God, no.

27 posted on 04/22/2012 11:48:19 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
Genesis 2:24 (KJV which is official Mormon text) states: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. This singular sense also translates directly from the Hebrew where, I believe, that polygyny practiced in Torah was in gross error of that very scripture until the edict of Rabbeinu Gershom in the 11th century banned it's practice altogether.

Yes, and Yeshua Messiah repeated/reinforced Gen. 2:24 in Matt. 19...ONE flesh. Jesus said a couple should no longer be considered TWO, but ONE. (Could we imagine Mormon sister-wives being "one flesh" of one another???)

It's not like the Torah was totally silent on polygamy:
(*) Many Mormon men married sisters -- something prohibited by Lev. 18:18.
(*) 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. (Deut. 17:17)

Yet Solomon ignored Deut. 17:17: He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray. 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God... (1 Kings 11:3-4)

(*) And then, when we read the contexts & Biblical commentary on Hagar we see:

(1) God never told Abraham to sleep with Hagar for a night. The Angel of the Lord--whom most commentators think is the pre-incarnated Son of God, told Hagar post sleepover to return to her mistress (master Sarai) and to submit to mistress Sarai. (He never said to return to "your husband, Abram"...see Genesis 16)

So. Was Abram a polygamist? No.

Q. Why not?
A. Concubines were not considered "wives." And the only one who ever references Hagar as a "wife" is Sarai/Sarah. (But we never know if Abram slept with Hagar even more than once).

Q. Who continues to deem Hagar a servant/slave after sleeping with Abram?
A. …Abram,
…Sarai,
…the Angel of the Lord (who some say is the pre-incarnated Son of God),
…Moses (Gen. 25),
…even the apostle Paul (Gal. 4:21-31),
…and Hagar herself.

Sarai labels Hagar as a gift as a "wife" to Abram, but I question if a woman has the authority to "consent" on behalf of a slave.
Hagar was considered a slave both "before" and "after" sleeping with Abram. Why does the "before" matter? Just as a minor cannot "consent" to sex, a slave is in no better situation to "consent" to--or deny--her master's commands for sex. And in this case, the command didn't come from her husband, Abram; it came from her mistress (female word for "master"), Sarai (Sarai is twice referenced as "mistress"--Gen. 16:4,8).

Why does the "after" matter?

Because it shows she didn't become a "transformed" person--from slave to wifely status! Gen. 16:6,8,9; 21:11; 25:12; and Gal. 4:21-31 all are still referencing her as either a "slave" (twice in 21:11), "servant," or one who was told by the Angel to submit to her mistress (female word for "master"). By Gen. 25, Abraham is married to Keturah with no mention of Hagar (25:1) and is then buried with Sarah (25:10).

So, to summarize: If we were to call all the key witnesses to the stand, and hear what they have to say:

Q Hagar, after Sarai gave you to Abram and Ishmael was conceived, did you still acknowledge Sarai as your "mistress" in your conversation with the Angel of the Lord? [female master]
A Yes. (Gen. 16:8)

Q Sarai, when you were in your early nineties when Isaac was a toddler, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Abraham, Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son, Isaac. (Gen. 21:10)

Q Abraham, after Sarah gave you Hagar and you slept with her, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Sarah, as mistress (master) of her servant, Your servant is in your hands. Do with her whatever you think best. (Gen. 16:6)

Q When Sarah began to mistreat her servant, Hagar, did you intervene like what we might expect a husband to do?
A No. Hagar was Sarah's servant.

Q Angel of the Lord, when you called to Hagar after she conceived Ishmael, how did you reference her?
A Servant of Sarai (Gen. 16:8)

Q And when you conversed with Hagar, did you, Angel of the Lord, acknowledge that she was released from her servant role to Sarai?
A No. In fact, I told her Go back to your mistress and submit to her. (Gen. 16:9)

Q Moses, since you wrote Genesis, how did you identify Hagar in her last reference of that book? Did you link her to Abraham?
A No. I identified her as "Sarah's maidservant" (Gen. 25:12).

Q So in that same passage, you link Ishmael to Abraham, but you link Hagar only to Sarah?
A Yes.

Q Apostle, Paul How did the Holy Spirit lead you to interpret the Old Covenant as expressed through Abraham?
A For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother...Now you brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? 'Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.' Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. (Gal. 4:21-31)

28 posted on 04/22/2012 12:18:20 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Moutm when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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