Posted on 04/30/2012 7:51:06 PM PDT by wmfights
You attempted to use a response I made to an article as some "evidence" that I believe that there is more than one way to salvation.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. The message changes, the gospel changes. It's disturbing that a Christian would even think this.
I didn't expect you to be able to refute the article for many reasons, first of which is the fact that you would be required to deal with Scripture that you have had to discard and deny to make your "doctrines" work.
Scriptures like Galatians 3:29?
Why should I try? I'll just get hissed at.
If someone approaches a subject with a closed mind all they process is the information that supports their predetermined view.
I can see whose minds are closed.
Christians did not "replace" Jews. --Dr. E.We agree. ;-)
God's family of believing Jews grew into all those who believe the Messiah came and conquered death and is God Himself. --Dr. E
In the church age we call our brothers and sisters Christians.
However, why partially blind Israel and is this blinding permanent? We both read our Bibles regularly and have read Romans 11 closely.
The partial hardening of Israel according to the flesh is not permanent. Many will, in the end, in the gracious will of God, be regenerated, come to faith, and join the rest of God's people in the church. They will be Christian.
Have you not read the scriptures, where it says "It is those who are of faith who are children of Abraham.", and "And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" ?
God put a burden on my heart to clarify my earlier post.
Matthew 25: 39-46 tells us who will get into Heaven in the ordinary course of events when Jesus Christ separates the Sheep from the Goats.
The good-thief on the Cross also tells us that it is possible to have an appeal directly to Jesus Christ for Mercy just before death. This is a dangerous approach to salvation as the bad-thief tells us that in our final sufferings it is also possible to curse God & die.
Follow the advice of Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 = The Parable of the Ten Virgins, The Parable of the Talents & The Judgment of Nations.
We should all remember, Jesus Christ is looking for >doers of the Word & not just a lot of talk.
And you still can produce not one shred of evidence that I think there's more than one way to salvation. Lying about other people is not the way to defend your own "position", such as it is.
Scriptures like Galatians 3:29?
And which of the hundreds of Scriptures that detail God's plans and promises for the Jews are cancelled out by Galatians 3:29?
And in what Scripture does the Holy Spirit, not fallen men who adhere to a demonic doctrine, tell us that any of His promises and plans to His chosen people are null and void?
Now the same error is being repeated, Christ has been appointed as heavenly king but now the added demand is that Christ leave his heavenly throne, take up flesh again and ride into Jerusalem.
Gal. 3:29? Those Scriptures are hard to read with the eyes pointed downward instead of heavenward.
Amen, Lee. I can’t comprehend a Christianity outside your description. It was a Jesuit priest who first pushed this anti-Scriptural theory.
Divide and conquer, their favorite tactic. The counter-Reformation never ended.
“God’s plans and promises for the Jews” are that as many as He calls become Christian.
This IS Christianity. To deny it is serious error.
Dispensationalists are being manipulated, IMO.
“Demonic doctrine?”
Oh, wow.
The Romanists are laughing their heads off.
—I think they still are God’s chosen people, even if they do not follow God today. —
I do too, and one needs only see the scripture about the sealing of the 144,000 do understand that position. However, the word “chosen” is an interesting one. Kinda like the word “blessed” in regards to Mary.
Was she chosen to be the mother of Jesus because she was blessed, or was she blessed because she was chosen?
Same thing here. If you pick a donut out of a stack of donuts, it becomes your “chosen” donut. Does that mean it had some special quality that caused you do chose it, or does it simply mean that it is the one you chose, for whatever reason, and is, therefore, your “chosen” donut.
Was Israel chosen because they were special, or are they special because they are the ones He chose?
Divide and conquer, their favorite tactic. The counter-Reformation never ended.
"Noone ever expects...the Spanish Inquisition!"
Blessings to you, Dr. E. Sure has been quite around here lately.
Lol.
After all these years on FR, I expect the Spanish Inquisition. 8~)
More’s the pity.
“Demonic doctrine?”Oh, wow.
Nothing like a little heated rhetoric to whip up the minions.
bflr
Can you think of any place where judgment led to repentance? I don’t believe that tribulation or war will bring the conversion of Israel.
It isn't the war itself - It is how they are saved from it. The prophets tell the story of a time when Israel will be overrun by a mighty force, and it will look like there is no hope, but they will be saved out of it miraculously. The Bible hints that this miracle will turn Israel away from its secular self, and back to YHWH. Now, we may argue the timing of that war, and the nature of it, but the time will surely come. And Zechariah ties that time with "And they will look upon me whom they have pierced"... So it is not hard to understand just who it is that goes before Israel in the clouds as of old during that battle... This IS confusing, however - and most folks would say this points to the battle being the Battle of Armageddon, simply BECAUSE Yeshua is revealed - I don't think that is necessarily true.
Why most folks cannot look at it that way is because of a supposed traditional prohibition of Christ coming back at all, other than at the end of time. I don't think He is restricted, except in the ways He pronounced upon Himself. After all, He seems to have taught Paul personally in the desert for 3 years... We ASSUME that was in vision, but that is not said. No doubt His coming in glory, and setting His foot on the Mount of Olives is the appearance that dwarfs any other, but that moment does not have to be the moment He reveals Himself to Israel. I think that YHWH is revealed to the nations BEFORE the bitter end - There is a time when the nations groan in fear when they find out that YHWH LIVES - That cannot be @Armageddon, because there simply isn't any time for it - From the time Christ is revealed there, He enters the Temple through the East Gate, and proceeds immediately to meet His foe... and that is the end of it all right there. So when is this time when the nations KNOW and tremble? I think YHWH will make Himself unequivocally known before the finale - That Yeshua will be made known to Israel before then too, and that is probably going to be the same event.
I struggle with the idea that Israel is left out of the Rapture - Left out of the Bride. It doesn't make sense to me that He would come for His People, and that would not include the physical essence of 'His People' on the earth, and the hallmark promises He has made to them. This, finally, is antisemitism and Replacement Theology all the way to the bitter end. That is what drives me to look at the prophecy somewhat differently than my dispensational brethren.
If we consider the prophetic character of history in scripture, perhaps we should be looking for an event like Joseph reveling himself to his brothers.
It is interesting that you would bring that up, because there certainly is a tie-in: A 'well with no water' is used only in the story of Joseph, and in the capture of Judah and Ephraim during an end times war... It is an interesting tidbit, and it makes me wonder what meaning is there.
The details argue against a mid-tribulation rapture.
In the clinical sense, according to accepted tradition, you are correct. But as I have declared upthread, my view of the tribulation is not conventional.
But they are drawn from the 12 tribes of Israel. They are going to be understood by a Jewish audience.
I cannot agree with that. They are Hebrew, not specifically Jewish. Of the 12 tribes, 10 are wholly lost - What are they now to the Jew (Judah)? No, I think that the 144000 will be for the whole of humanity - It is all of humanity that is getting that final notice, and the tribulation saints will come from all the nations. I continue to reiterate that if one does not understand the distinct difference drawn between the House of Israel (Ephraim) and the House of Judah (Judah, Jews), one cannot understand the Prophecy at all.
1 Cor 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; 9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 11 "AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, `KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 12 "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE." (Hebrews 8:1-13)
Which exact words in that Scripture that God gave us are lies?
Leave out the Scriptures about salvation, we all know about those.
I'll need the exact, word-for-word Scripture passages that replacement theologists use to deny the other Scriptures where God makes eternal promises to the Jewish people.
Now, if you can't find that Scripture, I'll need an explanation of where exactly replacement theology came from and what Scripture is used by replacement theologists to justify the belief that God has lied to His covenant, chosen people.
Can you give me the Scripture where God says that He has cancelled any of His promisses to the Jews?
That bit of rhetoric is important to you, isn't it?
What does the New Testament say about the land promise that you dispensationalists obsess about?
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
"Heir of the world"? Where did Paul get that? Hmmmm.
And see also
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.*These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
For they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Hmmmm.
Leave out the Scriptures about salvation, we all know about those.I'm not sure we all do. Maybe we should go over Acts 2:39.
I'll need the exact, word-for-word Scripture passagess that replacement theologists use to deny the other Scriptures where God makes eternal promises to the Jewish people.Now, if you can't find that Scripture, I'll need an explanation of where exactly replacement theology came from and what Scripture is used by replacement theologistss to justify the belief that God has lied to His covenant, chosen people.
See post 82.
I could give you every bit of the book, and you'd insist on reading it through the lens of Scofield's notes.
(Dr. E.: We write for the benefit of others who may be reading. Otherwise, I might invoke Matthew 7:6.)
*Which is to say, every Christian ever. Galatians 3:29.
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