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Abortion and Excommunication
CatholicPlanet.com ^ | May 20, 2004 | Ronald L. Conte Jr.

Posted on 05/11/2012 4:10:01 PM PDT by Salvation

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No "wiggle room" here!
1 posted on 05/11/2012 4:10:07 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Catholic Ping!


2 posted on 05/11/2012 4:12:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Except for the part where the self-automatically excommunicated receive our Lord on any given Sunday, in any given daily mass, by the Bishop himself, and who receive every other benefit availed to the devout. Scandal rocks, is indulged and rewarded, and all the world has seen it, for so long now they wonder what the occasional ruckus is about.


3 posted on 05/11/2012 4:31:53 PM PDT by RitaOK (Nevermind, Newt. Forget the convention. I'm trusting God for the rest.)
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To: Salvation

“Any Catholic who obstinately denies that abortion is always gravely immoral, commits the sin of heresy and incurs an automatic sentence of excommunication. “

So, Pelosi is excommunicated but still claims to be Catholic?

How can she do that and NOT be called on it by the Church?


4 posted on 05/11/2012 4:41:50 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Hulka

If the politician is automatically excommunicated, what is the punishment for a Priest or Bishop to give this person Communion, or what is the punishment for a Cardinal who performs a funeral service for a dead Senator who was automatically excommunicated.


5 posted on 05/11/2012 4:51:41 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: RitaOK

Then they are receiving the Eucharist unworthily, only adding to their sin.


6 posted on 05/11/2012 4:53:15 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RitaOK

One thing that no one knows in this scenario is whether the person went to Confession and repented and promised to not sin again.

God is merciful while we are alive, but at the moment of our death, God is pure justice.


7 posted on 05/11/2012 4:55:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
I can't say his heart isn't in the right place, but from: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=3892 :

Catholic Planet » Visit this site http://www.catholicplanet.com From Our Store: Essays in Apologetics, Volume II (eBook) Description

This site is the venue for the writings of Ronald Conte, self-described as a Catholic theologian. His site features numerous articles about Catholicism. Most controversial are his eschatology writings which give precise dates of future events right up to the coming of Christ (which he predicts to be in the 26th century). His claims are based on his interpretation of the Bible and private revelation throughout history.

While you may find something worthwhile on this site, it is replete with Mr. Conte's speculative theology. We suggest you avoid it unless you are a theologian and qualified to sift through and determine what is true and what isn't.

8 posted on 05/11/2012 5:15:32 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Salvation

I know and I trust in God’s mercy and justice, but to repeatedly and publicly and actively undermine the Church at every turn brings to mind either no confession at all, or a false one.

It is my understanding that in the case of repeated, willful and public scandal calls for private confession, but a public conversion. Is that your understanding?

One would think the penance would require it, given the nature of the stripe laid upon the Church remains brutal, brazen, and of national and international consequence. Continuing defiance seldom suggests a good confession.


9 posted on 05/11/2012 6:00:56 PM PDT by RitaOK (Nevermind, Newt. Forget the convention. I'm trusting God for the rest.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

This article didn’t dwell on speculations about the end of the world but on Canon Law pronouncements.


10 posted on 05/11/2012 6:02:36 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Yeah, yeah, yadda, yadda. Meanwhile the public heretic Sibelius is invited to speak at "Catholic" Georgetown, Pelosi publically compounds her heresy with no consequences, and the Bishop's waste their time criticizing the Ryan budget.

Wake me when any of those Canon Laws mean anything in the real world.

11 posted on 05/11/2012 6:09:37 PM PDT by Robwin
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To: Salvation

So what happens to a woman who has an abortion, is automatically excommed, and then sincerely confesses her sin in the confessional and is given absolution? Is she back in the club, able to receive all the sacraments,and probably most important, what happens to her on the last judgement day?


12 posted on 05/11/2012 6:27:50 PM PDT by navyblue (<u>)
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To: navyblue

God knows, I don’t.


13 posted on 05/11/2012 7:49:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Good article. Hope Donald Cardinal Wuerl sees it.


14 posted on 05/11/2012 8:43:15 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Salvation
No wiggle room? More like all bark and no bite. As long as a majority of Catholics continue to vote for Obama and other liberal, anti-life Democrats and Catholic politicians continue to ignore church teachings about the issue while they continue to receive all the sacraments when they show up at their local church with impunity, the rest of the Catholic “world” notes that, as par for the course, what the “Magesterium” says and what they actually do are two different things. Until the parish priests and bishops put some teeth behind their declarations, they can bluster and bark until the cows come home and their bluff will continue to be called.
15 posted on 05/11/2012 9:42:45 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation
But a"teaching" that isn't taught brings contempt to the teaching.

Just as a law that isn't enforced brings contempt to the law.

16 posted on 05/12/2012 4:12:28 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("For it is time for judgment to begin with the Household of God;.." 1 Peter 4:17)
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To: Salvation
No "wiggle room" here!

Oh, you are quite wrong!

This "automatic excommunication" gives wiggle room to all the bishops who can continue to pal around with their powerful pro-abortion Catholic friends, and it even allows the Bishop of Rome to remain silent in the face of prolonged, public and manifest heresy in the case of Biden, Pelosi, and others.

When my grandfather was excommunicated, it was done in public, in front of his widowed mother (he married a Lutheran).

If it was good enough for Grandpa, it's good enough for Pelosi (who just proclaimed that the Catholic faith REQUIRES support for homosexuals pretending to be married).

The attempt by Obama to begin the organization of an American Patriotic Catholic Church, with the willing cooperation of Pelosi, Biden, Georgetown, Notre Dame, and others is not just heresy on the part of his Catholic allies but is a major schism in the making which, even if it fails, will cause enormous damage.

Do you seriously contend that pretending that all of these rebels are "automatically excommunicated", while they continue to receive the Eucharist in public from the hands of bishops in communion with Peter, will suffice?

17 posted on 05/12/2012 4:30:56 AM PDT by Jim Noble ("The Germans: At your feet, or at your throat" - Winston Churchill)
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To: Venturer

Good question. . .I wish the leadership of the Church would make public answers to your question and mine.


18 posted on 05/12/2012 5:24:12 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: Salvation
Dear Salvation,

Words can be tricky.

“Any Catholic who obstinately denies...”

The problem comes with the word “obstinate.” It has a meaning in ordinary language, but its meaning in terms of canon law, from what I've been told, is a little more narrow.

From what I've read of a few various canon lawyers, “obstinately” denying the faith means, in part, that one has been formally corrected, directly and personally, about a matter, by a competent spiritual/ecclesial superior (your priest, your bishop, a tribunal of the Church directed by competent ecclesial authority to make such a judgment) and that the particular superior so instructing you determines that you're holding your heretical view obstinately.

Thus, a theologian who is formally investigated by the Church, and told formally to desist from certain opinions, who does not then do so, is said to be obstinately denying the faith or holding to heresy.

I'm not saying I agree with interpreting things that way, I'm just saying, this is what I've read from some canon lawyers and at least one priest/theologian.

This fellow Mr. Conte may draw what conclusions he likes, but they are not the only way to look at the issues at hand, nor, perhaps, the most commonly-accepted way, at least by those in the Church with authority or with opinions informed by actual knowledge obtained through scholarly study.


sitetest

19 posted on 05/12/2012 6:35:52 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Venturer

The punishment is on the excommunicant. By receiving the body and blood while in a state of mortal sin, they have committed a sacrilege.


20 posted on 05/12/2012 6:41:03 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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