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To: jboot; Gamecock; lupie; irishtenor
I believe there are "layers" to the understanding of the OT of which you have touched on. Certainly many of the laws and regulations certainly no longer apply except in a spiritual sense. But I would also suggest the bloody cleansing of Canaan by Joshua is more than a spiritual application. If one notes while God commanded the Israelites to cleanse the land and every one of God's promises came to pass (Joshua 21:45), the Israelites did not fulfill their end of the bargain.(Judges 1).

In Judah's case (Judges 1), God commanded Judah to go and take possession of the land. Judah asked Simeon to go up and help him. They meant with some success but was unable to dislodge the people because of their "chariots of iron". In Benjamin's case, they didn't bother to do anything. Instead they allowed the Jebusites to remain and live with them, as did the tribe of Joseph. As for the Canaanites, the Israelites determine that it would be much more profitable for making slaves out of them than following God's command (Judges 1:28-34). Dan was so weak in their faith that they never took control and lived in fear of the Amorites by hiding in the hills (Judges 1:35). Only blessed Caleb was anxious to go in there and try to get the job done (at 85!!!).

In each of these cases, the Israelites offered excuses and presented probably what sounded like very good reasons for not doing what God had commanded them to do-drive out the inhabitants and make no agreements with them. Perhaps they were trying to be kind. Perhaps they rationalized to themselves that these people would convert to their faith. More likely they saw it as an opportunity of enslaving a people for their own gain. Whatever the reason, in Judges 2:1-4 we find God was pretty displeased over the whole mess and told the Israelites that their compromises would end up being a snare around their necks. (Doesn't this sound like what the church is going through today?)

I'm not suggesting we start hacking up heathens with swords (although a few heretics might be OK). :O) But I would suggest that we take a very close look at what happened. God gave the commandment to Joshua to cleanse Canaan because it was in their best spiritual and national interest. The compromising of the Israelites really undermined what was BEST for themselves.

Yes, we can spiritualize this but I also think there is a literal application here. Like God did for Joshua and the Israelites, God has given us commandments that are the very BEST for us. Every time we compromise a command, either doing something we shouldn't or not doing something that we should, just like the Israelites we are compromising what God has determined to be the very best for our lives. And, unfortunately, for each of us this happens very frequently.

And, btw, is it any wonder that God is wrathful? He keeps wanting and giving us the very best but we don't want it. We keep rejecting or fail to do it. Indeed God is long suffering.

I'm convinced that God wanted this recorded for our instruction-not to hack up the Canaanites but to be obedient to His instructions so it will go well for us. We can see the results through Israel of what happens when we are disobedient. This sad episode in Israel's life underscores what happens to us as believers every time we transgress God's commands. It isn't just sin against God, but its that we make our lives more difficult than it should be. And just like the Israelites, we cry when things get tough because of our disobediance.

As far as Leviticus, from the wringing of the necks of turtledoves, forbidding the climbing of stairs without undergarments, to the mold in homes; they all represents various aspects of God's providential care. But that's another (BORING!!!) post. :O)

79 posted on 05/31/2012 11:20:47 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

Instead they allowed the Jebusites to remain and live with them,


“Hate the sin and love the sinner” is something most Christians and non christians roll off their tongues quite easily. I can imagine this was said then also.


80 posted on 05/31/2012 11:36:29 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: HarleyD; jboot; lupie; irishtenor
And, btw, is it any wonder that God is wrathful?

Just for the lurker, God is indeed wrathful.
If you need proof just look at the cross.

81 posted on 05/31/2012 4:43:07 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: HarleyD

I agree with you about the layers - I don’t think we can even imagine how many layers there are. I think we will be spending all of eternity learning how all the layers point to our Redeemer.

I agree with you that all of this is provided for our instruction. When we obey Him, we have His peace. When we don’t, well, our spiritual enemies attack us. If we don’t “hack up” our spiritual enemies that we allow to live with us, they will constantly attack us. In 2 Corinthians 10:5, Paul says to throw down (”hack”) all our thoughts that are not of God and instead, take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. Every thought for us - every enemy for the Israelites. An impossible task, but one we can work on, only in the power of the Holy Spirit. Just like the Israelites could only defeat their enemies through God.

I didn’t think your post was boring at all. I thought it was interesting.


84 posted on 06/01/2012 12:45:37 PM PDT by lupie
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