Posted on 06/13/2012 2:59:02 PM PDT by Gamecock
I know that we have a hand full of Catholic, America haters here who are determined to rewrite American history and the Protestant creation of the greatest nation that has ever existed but I don’t see wasting time with them today.
Learning about those America haters was one of the great shocks to me when I started reading FR, I had never known that the element existed, at least not among the minority of Catholics who are not full fledged liberals.
Jimmy Swaggart made me Catholic.
http://shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=170
“Tim Staples was your typical enthusiastic Protestant, on fire for his faith—until he met the “wrong” Marine: a Catholic man who was both willing and able to defend his faith.
How did Tim Staples, an extremely anti-Catholic man, get started on the path to Rome?
What happened to cause the little boy who wanted to be a preacher just like Billy Graham to grow up and become a well-known Catholic apologetics speaker instead?
How did the man Tim set out to “save” end up saving him?
How can a Protestant Bible school be the place where the gift of Catholic faith is forged? Let Tim tell you his story . . .
How could a man who was bound and determined to prove the Catholic Church wrong ever be persuaded otherwise?
Why was Tim defending the Catholic Church during his time at Jimmy Swaggart Bible College? Find out how this school expedited the process of Tim becoming Catholic!
Why did Tim feel so alone on the cusp of becoming a Catholic? The heart-breaking decision Tim had to make while on the verge of conversion
Listen to Tim Staples as he tells you the incredible story of his conversion—it’s a story you won’t soon forget.
Perhaps not.
Deuteronomy 34
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.
And there you have it.
Oh it will do for me.
Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."
Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."
1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"
God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
>> Indeed it was this authority which ruled on what is the true canon of Scripture in the first place.<<
That is so old, tired and weak. God can use anyone for His purposes. Just because God uses a person or an organization means nothing as it relates to being true to Him. I would point to Judas, or any of the nations who came against Israel. It’s even stated in Revelation that God will “put a hook” in their jaw to bring them against Israel. Even if the RCC did “codify” what was already considered scripture long before there was an RCC it surely doesn’t mean they are true to His teachings.
Christ didn’t establish an earthly organization as the RCC would have you believe nor has He been replaced with a book. He is still the only head of the body and has no “vicar” on earth. He lives within each and every true believer and directs their way as He sees the needs and abilities of each.
CynicalBear:
Exactly, there you have it. And why are you bringing other people into the thread? You can’t discuss theology on your own?
There are many who have fallen away from faith in Christ alone and put their faith in carnal man. Christ warned of following false Christs or those who claim to be vicar of Christ. Christ didn’t put anyone in between Himself and His body of believers. Satan snairs many away who don’t put their faith in Him alone.
I thought that surely you would want others to see the basis of your beliefs.
So tell me did all those people (Catholics) who professed Christ as the savior during the first 1,500 years after his death, go to hell? You know all those folks that were persecuted, fed to lions and slaughtered only because of their believe in Him? And have they continued to go to hell in the past 600 years? Inquiring minds want to know.
CynicalBear:
The basis of my beliefs are supported by the orthodox Writers of Christendon down thru the centuries. as such, it is the faith of the ancients. I think the issue is more of the basis of your beliefs which are the theology developed by CynicalBear. You believe in the theology of Cynicalbear and I will put my beliefs in continuity with St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Justin Martyre, St. Irenaus of Lyons, St. Athanasiaus, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose of Milan, St. Jerome, the orthodox Church Fathers who met at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, Constantinopile 381 AD, Ephesus 431 AD, Chalcedon 451 AD, etc, etc. with is entirely in continuity with Sacred Scripture and orthodox Apostolic Tradition.
The beliefs of Cynicalbear are well, the beliefs based on the theology of Cynicalbear.
As for the other posters you linked, I am well aware of them as they are part of the fundie cohort here that are similar to you with their theology according to them. If there is a time and place that I choose to discuss theology with them, I think I should be the one to make that decision.
Your question that I responded to was an open ended question and I responded to said question. Your answers are cleary the answers from your own perspective and can’t be shown to held in consensus with anyone other than similar minded FR Fundie Protestants found here.
I can play that game too:
You are Kepha (Rock), and upon this kepha (rock) I will build my church.God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
I can also add other Catholic teaching from the Bible:
[Jesus said:] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
(Matt 7:21)[jesus said:] "If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
(Matt 19:17)While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, l for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
(Matt 26:26-28)[Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
(John 20:21-23)Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
(2 Thes 2:15)So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
(James 2:17)
Just because God uses a person or an organization means nothing as it relates to being true to Him.
Except that the office of apostles established by Jesus was to continue after the death of the original twelve:
During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said, “My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus. He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry. He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out. This became known to everyone who lived in Jerusalem, so that the parcel of land was called in their language ‘Akeldama,’ that is, Field of Blood. For it is written in the Book of Psalms:And it is the Church, lead by the apostles and later bishops, which is the pillar and foundation of truth:‘Let his encampment become desolate,And:
and may no one dwell in it.’‘May another take his office.’Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.” So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.” Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.
(Acts 1:15-26)Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate.
(2 Tim 4:14)For this reason I left you in Crete so that you might set right what remains to be done and appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed you.
(Tit 1:5)
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.God said it, I believe it, that settles it.
(1 Tim 3:15)
A preposterous question by anyone’s standards. Anyone who confesses Christ as their only hope and doesn’t go off into what they need to add to His sacrifice is saved. Those who rely on Christ alone are saved. Begin to claim that an individual must somehow “merit” salvation is professing that Christ’s sacrifice was not sufficient.
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
>> You know all those folks that were persecuted, fed to lions and slaughtered only because of their believe in Him?<<
Depends, where they professing faith in the “church” or faith in Christ alone. Only God knows.
>> And have they continued to go to hell in the past 600 years?<<
Not if they professed a faith in Christ alone. Putting faith in the “church” is nothing but idol worship.
What is really going on: God said, I interpretated it, my interpretation settles it.
I put my faith in Christ not in any mortal man.
>>The beliefs of Cynicalbear are well, the beliefs based on the theology of Cynicalbear.<<
Beliefs based solely on scripture and not some faith in mortal men. If the RCC believes that the “church fathers” wrote the infallible word of God they should include those writings in their scripture. Well, it actually looks like they do treat them as they do scriptur. Never mind.
>>If there is a time and place that I choose to discuss theology with them, I think I should be the one to make that decision.<<
No one asked you to or suggested you should.
>>Your question that I responded to was an open ended question and I responded to said question.<<
No, this started from my post #17 which wasn’t to you but was specifically asked of someone else. Now you cry simply because I included others? LOL
You can not have faith without works nor can you have true works without faith. Read the epistle of James, especially chapter 2.
You can not have faith without works nor can you have true works without faith. Read the epistle of James, especially chapter 2.
This explains why there is over 250 Protestant Churches in the US.
The apostles never assumed or taught that Scripture inspired by God would later be replaced by a *church*. When they were spreading the gospel, they were using Scripture, showing them out of Scripture.
Even Jesus did that on the road to Emmaus.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
The only purpose of the Law was to lead us to Christ, to show us that we needed Him. It was never intended to save anyone.
I'll let Jesus answer that one.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
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