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To: darrellmaurina
It would seem to me that a quick look at the Westminster Confession of Faith would solve this for any logical moral thinkers (Chapter 19 "Of the Law of God"):

2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
(Related WLC: 98 WSC: 41)

3. Beside this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the new testament.
(Related WLC: WSC: )

4. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.
(Related WLC: WSC: )

5. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither doth Christ, in the gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the Lord. You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion." (Leviticus 18:21-23)

(fascinating how homosexual behavior is listed right along with child sacrifice and bestiality, isn't it? Also fascinating how homosexual activists today are almost uniformly pro-abortion...and most favor other sexual perversions too.)

So, since the Moral Law--of the Old Testament--applies to everyone today (no exceptions for "secular government") how can anyone call themselves Reformed at all...let alone a conservative Presbyterian--in obedience to the Westminster standards, and deny that? I really don't see any leeway, whatsoever, on homosexuality.

An OPC PASTOR'S WIFE? What? She, or perhaps her husband, needs to be charged in his presbytery for departing from holy Scripture--and his vows to uphold the Westminster standards.

14 posted on 08/10/2012 11:20:33 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (reality is analog, not digital...)
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To: All
FYI: I'm a conservative Anglican, (of the J.I. Packer variety) and we rightly name ourselves as "Reformed Catholic." The Anglican "Articles of Religion" (dating to nearly 100 years before Westminster) also clearly distinguish between Ceremonial, Civil and Moral Law in the Old Testament...and bind us all to that Moral Law (and to Christ alone for justification...). From the "Articles of Religion" (or the "Thirty-nine Articles"):

VII. Of the Old Testament. The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

15 posted on 08/10/2012 11:30:03 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (reality is analog, not digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns
14 posted on Fri Aug 10 2012 13:20:33 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by AnalogReigns: “An OPC PASTOR'S WIFE? What? She, or perhaps her husband, needs to be charged in his presbytery for departing from holy Scripture—and his vows to uphold the Westminster standards.”

It happened.

The whole case got bollixed up with the question of theonomy and Old School Presbyterian “spirituality of the church” views. The end result is that Rev. Lee Irons chose to leave the OPC, his church disbanded, and Irons eventually ended up in the PCA as a layman (I think he's now a ruling elder).

While Rev. Lee Irons and Misty Irons were personally run out of the OPC, their ideas were not, and the underlying issues did not get solved. As to persons, Lee and Misty Irons are now the PCA’s problem. However, their ideas did not leave the OPC when they left.

There continue to be significant numbers of Reformed people in the OPC and PCA who believe that general revelation and natural law, not Scripture, are to determine what is right and wrong in politics. Most won't go anywhere near as far as Misty Irons — as she said to the Gay Christian Network conference, her advocacy created space for less radical people to be viewed as moderates in the OPC — but the key issue of the role of the law in the civil sphere remains.

I get the point that nobody wants to say that Dabney and Thornwell were heretics, and nobody wants to co-opt the gospel with politics. I really do get it — Gardiner Spring resolutions are bad and have no place in Reformed assemblies.

However, this has to be addressed. It does us no good to be valiant in all the battles of the world except the one where our chief enemy is currently fighting.

If someone is a solid five-point Calvinist and subscribes without reservation to all the articles and points of doctrine of the Heidelberg Catechism, Belgic Confession and Canons of Dordt, or without exception to the system of doctrine contained in the Westminster Standards, but then proceeds to argue that we can ignore the culture war because it is “mere politics” and go AWOL in the middle of the homosexual assault on marriage in America, I fail to see how such a person is obeying God at this time when what is left of Christianity is under direct attack in the civil sphere.

16 posted on 08/10/2012 11:58:51 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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