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Need to settle a bet...

Posted on 08/22/2012 11:15:24 AM PDT by NYCCatholic

Can one of you good freepers settle a bet?

I'm looking for the rules governing the use of chalices and the requirement that they be made of precious metal(s). I recently attended a Mass at a convent and the Priest used a glass chalice. I am almost positive that I have read that since the GIRM has been revised, it now states that chalices must be made of precious metal. Is the use of glass chalices Liturgical abuse? What are the rules regarding chalices? If you provide information,I ask that you please link your source. Thanks!


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: chalice; sacramentals
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1 posted on 08/22/2012 11:15:27 AM PDT by NYCCatholic
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To: NYCCatholic

I thought the inside had to be lined with gold.


2 posted on 08/22/2012 11:17:06 AM PDT by battlecry
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To: battlecry

I thought so too, but I need the proof. :-)


3 posted on 08/22/2012 11:20:49 AM PDT by NYCCatholic (So sad!)
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To: NYCCatholic

Just google for the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.


4 posted on 08/22/2012 11:22:36 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (In Edward Kennedy's America, federal funding of brothels is a right, not a privilege.)
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To: NYCCatholic

You had better use gold, or you’ll go to hell and the devil will stick a pitchfork up your bottom.


5 posted on 08/22/2012 11:23:43 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: NYCCatholic
chalice ewtn girm

I'd read it had to be nice metal years ago, not sure about gold or silver. I've been to a mass where it was glass and one where it was pottery.

6 posted on 08/22/2012 11:27:16 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: NYCCatholic

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03561a.htm

Look towards the bottom.


7 posted on 08/22/2012 11:28:38 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: NYCCatholic

A quick google search found this:

III. Sacred Vessels

327. Among the requisites for the celebration of Mass, the sacred vessels are held in special honor, especially the chalice and paten, in which the bread and wine are offered and consecrated, and from which they are consumed.

328. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.

329. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials that, according to the common estimation in each region, are precious, for example, ebony or other hard woods, provided that such materials are suited to sacred use and do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels which hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and other things of this kind.

330. As regards chalices and other vessels that are intended to serve as receptacles for the Blood of the Lord, they are to have bowls of nonabsorbent material. The base, on the other hand, may be made of other solid and worthy materials.

331. For the consecration of hosts, a large paten may appropriately be used; on it is placed the bread for the priest and the deacon as well as for the other ministers and for the faithful.

332. As to the form of the sacred vessels, the artist may fashion them in a manner that is more in keeping with the customs of each region, provided each vessel is suited to the intended liturgical use and is clearly distinguishable from those intended for everyday use.

333. For the blessing of sacred vessels, the rites prescribed in the liturgical books are to be followed.

334. The practice is to be kept of building a sacrarium in the sacristy, into which are poured the water from the purification of sacred vessels and linens (cf. above, no. 280).

[Copyright © 2003, United States Catholic Conference, Inc., Washington, D.C. All rights reserved.]


8 posted on 08/22/2012 11:30:17 AM PDT by Never on my watch (I can see November from the Chick-Fil-A drive through lane.)
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To: NYCCatholic

330. As regards chalices and other vessels that are intended to serve as receptacles for the Blood of the Lord, they are to have bowls of nonabsorbent material. The base, on the other hand, may be made of other solid and worthy materials.

http://old.usccb.org/liturgy/current/GIRM.pdf

Page 81


9 posted on 08/22/2012 11:30:28 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: NYCCatholic
From EWTN

GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF THE ROMAN MISSAL
Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship
[Although translated for use in the English speaking countries these norms are the universal law of the Church for the Latin Rite. If in specific rubrics they are modified for a particular country, with the approval of the Holy See, such emendations will be included in a Appendix to the General Instruction and found together with it in the Sacramentary (altar missal) published for the nation in question.]

[This 4th edition of the "General Instruction of the Roman Missal" (GIRM) was issued by the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship on March 27, 1975.]


Contents

Introduction
Chapter I: Importance and Dignity of Eucharistic Celebration
Chapter II: Structure, Elements, and Parts of Mass
Chapter III: Offices and Ministries in Mass
Chapter IV: Different Forms of Celebration
Chapter V: Arrangement and Furnishing of Churches for Eucharistic Celebration
Chapter VI: Requisites for Celebrating Mass
Chapter VII: Choice of Mass
Chapter VIII: Masses And Prayers for Various Needs and Occasions
Endnotes


10 posted on 08/22/2012 11:30:34 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYCCatholic

About 15 years ago, in the Diocese of Galveston-Houston, I did see the use of glass chalices in certain parishes.

I understand that, right now, it is no longer allowed.

About 30 years ago I witnessed women in the parish bake the bread to be used at Mass. I always thought that it was not a very good idea in that the bread easily crumbled.

For awhile, after Vatican II, the Church went wild and “played it by ear”. Discipline went out of the window and the result can still be seen in many of our “Catholic” schools and colleges.


11 posted on 08/22/2012 11:32:16 AM PDT by 353FMG (The US Constitution is only as good as those who enforce it.)
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To: raybbr

Here is a link to the GIRM—you want parg. 328-330 in the middle of page 70.
http://www.romanmissal.ca/GIRM.pdf


12 posted on 08/22/2012 11:33:08 AM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: NYCCatholic
From the GIRM:

"328. Sacred vessels should be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, they should generally be gilded on the inside.

"329. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials which in the common estimation in each region are considered precious or noble, for example, ebony or other harder woods, provided that such materials are suitable for sacred use. In this case, preference is always to be given to materials that do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels that are intended to hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and others of this kind.

"330. As regards chalices and other vessels that are intended to serve as receptacles for the Blood of the Lord, they are to have a bowl of material that does not absorb liquids. The base, on the other hand, may be made of other solid and worthy materials."

So even though it is not preferred as a material, glass has one of the qualities necessary (it is non-absorbent), it may have another one of the qualities necessary depending on the glass in question (that it is "noble" or worthy) and it lacks one of the qualities necessary (that it not be easily breakable).

I guess one could argue that a substance like "gorilla glass" could meet all three requirements, since it is non-absorbent, expensive/prized and not easily breakable.

But most glass chalices I've seen would not survive a fall.

13 posted on 08/22/2012 11:37:12 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYCCatholic

Tidbits about Silver:
-a silver dollar was used in water barrels on wagon trains to keep germs out of the water
-a silver dollar was used in milk cans to keep milk from spoiling
-a silver vessel for communion can be used by multiple people to keep germs from spreading

Maybe where they got “born with a silver spoon in his mouth”


14 posted on 08/22/2012 12:58:01 PM PDT by conservativesister
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To: NYCCatholic

According to my late uncle, a long-time Catholic Priest, a chalice had to be made from “a non-porous, non-breakable material”.

My understanding is that non-porous was a requirement because they did not want the actual Blood of Christ to be soaked into wood or any other foreign object. And unbreakable so that it would not be spilled.

Gold, silver, pewter, or just about any metal would seem to qualify.


15 posted on 08/22/2012 1:16:01 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: NYCCatholic

What biblical basis is there for such a stipulation???


16 posted on 08/22/2012 1:39:33 PM PDT by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: NYCCatholic

Had a parish priest in PA where I grew up and served as an altar boy. Fr. Ted came from coalminer and steelworker stock and had a chalice made out of stainless steel and anthracite.


17 posted on 08/22/2012 1:48:46 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: TheBattman

In imitation of what Christ used. Have you seen the pictures of what he probably used. Does not look like a present day chalice, but it was metal. I’ll see if I can find the picture.


18 posted on 08/22/2012 1:59:29 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: TheBattman
The chalice that Christ would have used probably had two handles -- maybe the last picture is most accurate. I think it's coming back into style, though.

 
 
 
 
 
 

19 posted on 08/22/2012 2:09:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Before anyone says, “But in the ‘Indiana Jones’ movie, it was a ceramic cup!”, read the Gospels again. Jesus and His disciples were the guests of a comfortably well-off family in Jerusalem, possibly relatives of one of the apostles, or connections of His undercover followers among the Jewish leadership. At the Last Supper, they would have used their host’s best Seder service vessels.

Even poor extended families built up, over generations, a good set of durable dishes to celebrate the Passover. The Last Supper hosts could have been Jesus’s paternal relatives. St. Joseph was “of the house of David.” Even though he was a carpenter in the hinterland, he had some upscale relations, who had obligations to less fortunate family members, including hosting them for religious festivals.


20 posted on 08/22/2012 7:46:21 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall.)
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