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You guys are doing exactly what I said you would. You show selective interest in what many early Christian leaders believed and, it seems, what Scripture clearly says. I have better things to do with my time than set up targets for you. You believe what you want to believe and so will I. You claim you have your religion to back you up and I KNOW what the Word of God says.

On some things we agree on others we don't. Yet I know that I have everlasting life because of what Christ did for me. I am justified because of God's unmerited and merciful grace and I am made righteous in Christ by faith NOT by works - INCLUDING being water baptized. Through His shed blood ALL my sins' debts have been paid in full - I have been washed in His precious blood. I know that the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to me and I am found IN Christ not having my own righteousness, but the righteousness of God in Christ. This blessed and glorious assurance is the birthright of ALL those who come to Christ in faith. It is not dependent on what church we attend or what prayers we say or even what "ordinances" we observe, but simply by faith in the one who makes us righteous through HIS sacrifice. Living a holy life is through God's grace and is evidence of a saving faith - not the cause of our salvation. My heart's desire is for all those who seek the truth will know it and will live their lives in victory, running this race with patience, knowing the author and finisher of our faith. Good night.

Baptism is seen unanimously by the Church Fathers as the normative necessary means of salvation. The Fathers all read the verses exactly as stated. When they read baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21), that it washes away sins (Acts 22:16, 1 Cor. 6:11), and causes the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), they all took it for what it said. There was not one isolated voice for 1500 years that taught against baptismal regeneration. The first person who taught against it was John Calvin and the Ana-Baptists. Why people who claim to follow scripture reject the plain meaning of scripture is because they have decided to follow a man-made tradition, against, Jesus, against Peter, and against Paul.

In sum, the Bible says that baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21). They say that baptism does not save. The Bible says that baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16). They say that baptism does not wash away sins. The Bible says that one must be born of water and spirit (John 3:3-5). They say that water is not necessary. The Bible says that baptism causes the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). They say that baptism does not cause the remission of sins. The Bible says that baptism makes us sons of God (Gal. 3:26-27). They say that baptism does not make us sons. The Bible says that baptism makes one put on Christ (Gal. 3:27). They say that baptism does not make us put on Christ. The Bible says by baptism one puts off the body of sins (Col. 2:12-13, Rom. 6:3-4). They say that baptism does not put off the body of sins.

these two paragraphs are really the money quotes from matt’s wonderful defense of Biblical Christianity from those who attempt to distort it at their own peril.

BB, you say we have a “selective” interest in “many” early Christian leaders..... LOL!! if by “many” you mean EVERY, i would agree with you, if by “selective” you mean ALL, i am with you.

YOU HAVE FAILED TO PRODUCE ONE CHURCH FATHER FROM THE FIRST FIVE CENTURIES OF THE CHURCH THAT REJECTED BAPTISMAL REGENERATION AND HELD TO THE 16TH CENTURY INVENTION OF THE TWO BAPTISM THEORY.

think of that, it is stunning!! WHAT A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT!! JESUS SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD THE CHURCH TO ALL TRUTH AND ACCORDING TO YOU, HE FAILED MISERABLY. THE DEVIL WAS ABLE TO FOOL ALL OF CHRISTENDOM AND LEAD THE BODY OF CHRIST TO APOSTASY!!

i don’t claim to have “my religion” to back me up, I HAVE THE WORD OF GOD AND THE 2,000 YEAR UNBROKEN LINE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST TO BACK ME UP.

here is the problem you have, it isn’t JUST the fact that you reject the way of salvation that Jesus established, that would only affect your eternal destiny. NO, IT IS WORSE. YOU FURTHER REJECT THE WILL OF THE FATHER EXPRESSED BY JESUS IN HIS PRAYER TO THE FATHER IN JOHN 17 THAT HIS FOLLOWERS BE ONE, SO OTHERS MAY BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS SENT BY THE FATHER.

so the rejection of the Christian Faith as taught by the Apostles and handed down in the UNIVERSAL CHURCH for 2,000 years and accusing the UNIVERSAL CHURCH OF APOSTASY has led to millions and millions being utterly deceived in the cults of Mormonism, Islam, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, etc, etc. I KNOW, I HAVE WITNESSED TO THEM AS THEY COME TO MY DOOR AND I AM TOLD EXACTLY WHAT YOU STATED - NAMELY, THE “TRUE” CHURCH FELL AWAY, WAS TAKEN OVER BY PAGANS AND FELL INTO APOSTASY IN THE FIRST FEW CENTURIES!!!

THEY BELIEVE EXACTLY WHAT YOU BELIEVE!!!

these are the words of Jesus, who you CLAIM to know:

I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, THAT THEY MAY BE ALL ONE; even as thou, Father art in me and I in thee , that they also may be in us, SO THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME.
John 17:20-21

it does matter what faith you hold, it does matter what you accuse Christians of for 1,500 years, it does matter if one falsely accuses someone of teaching salvation is by anything other than grace, it does matter, it DOES MATTER.

if living a holy life is evidence of saving faith according to you, what is living a life contrary to the Christian Faith and the express wishes of Jesus evidence of??

to refute the accusation that is often made against the UNIVERSAL Church that it teaches salvation by works - here is my test i give to anyone who obviously has no clue what the Church teaches ( even some who claim to have been Catholic once - you know who you are ! )

a man has never prayed to God in his life, he utterly rejects God’s existance, he murders a man and is sent to death row. while on death row, he rapes a fellow prisoner and curses at God. the day before he is to die, he is witnessed to by a fellow Christian prisoner and is told the good news that Jesus Christ became man, lived a sinless life and willingly went to the cross as a Sacrifice for his sins to reconcile him to the Father. the Holy Spirit drew him to Jesus Christ and as his last wish the following day, one half hour before being put to death, the man requested a priest come and baptize him, which was done. one half hour, the prisoner went to his death. the prisoner NEVER DID A GOOD WORK IN HIS LIFE.

Here is the test to anyone who accuses the Church of teaching salvation by works -

according to the Catholic Faith, did that prisoner go to heaven or hell when he died????