Posted on 09/01/2012 2:23:41 AM PDT by iowamark
Early in the evening of May 28, 2010, I am attending Mass in the majestic Basilica di Sant’Apollinare next to the Pontificia Università della Santa Croce in Rome. From Utah I have come as a scholar to deliver a paper at an international conference on the work of the great Catholic philosopher Dietrich von Hildebrand, and I have come as a tourist to see the Eternal City for the first time. Mass is being celebrated in the basilica for those attending the conference.
I am not Catholic—in fact, I was raised a Mormon, though I have had serious doubts about the Latter-day Saint faith for decades. Yet my journey of the heart—which ultimately ended in the Catholic Church—came long after I had intellectually departed—so I cannot receive Holy Communion. But when Archbishop Raymond Burke places his hand on my head in a blessing, the extraordinary presence of Jesus Christ moves my soul to tears. I now know, in my head and in my heart, that I have come to Rome as a pilgrim. I have finally heard his voice, and I will not turn away.
Of course, I was awestruck by the beauty of Rome. The conference was wonderful, and I made important contacts and great friends. But infinitely more important, I found a priceless gift: the God of truth I had ignored for decades. I found my soul, which had been lost in the fog of my pride and stubbornness. Thus began a journey that took me to the waters of Catholic baptism, the anointing of confirmation, and first Communion at the Easter Vigil of 2012. You do not need to travel thousands of miles to have a real encounter with Christ. But your soul does need to be open in a way mine had not been for years.
Mormon friends ask how I could leave the LDS Church. Catholic friends ask why the pilgrimage to Rome took me so long. My brother, a rabbi, was the first person I told I was converting. When we talked, he said simply, “You were a Catholic thinker when you were a graduate student at Harvard in the 1970s.”
Intellectually, there are two beliefs at the core of the LDS faith that I eventually realized I could not accept. The first is the doctrine of a “great apostasy” afflicting the church. Mormons do not deny that Peter led the church after Jesus’ Ascension. They deny that the Holy Spirit continued to guide it. Mormons believe that after Peter the patristic church lost its way.
And by “losing its way,” Mormons do not mean that the church suffered from human sinfulness or became too wedded to secular power. Christianity supposedly strayed so far that it was no longer Christianity. It did not merely require renewal, as St. Francis preached. It did not merely require a new vocabulary to express timeless truths, as Vatican II proclaimed. Mormons believe that the church—Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant visions alike—completely died and that Christianity required a “restoration” by God himself.
My intellectual journey was inspired in large part by my study of patristics. Reading the Church Fathers in my first year at Harvard in 1970–71, I realized that this story was false. Even my meager study of the Fathers allowed me to see what Newman had seen—that there was a development of Christian thought, a deepening of our understanding of such truths as the Incarnation and the Trinity. There simply was no evidence of a fundamental break from the church Jesus established. As one of Mormonism’s most brilliant minds of the last half century, Edwin Firmage, wrote after he left the LDS Church: “The idea that God was sort of snoozing until 1820 now seems to me absurd.”
Two passages from the Gospel of Matthew are particularly difficult to reconcile with the Mormon doctrine of the great apostasy. Jesus promised Peter that “the gates of the netherworld” would not prevail against the Church (Matthew 16) and he promised the Apostles that he would be with the Church until the end of the age (Matthew 28).
The other fundamental Mormon teaching that I cannot accept is the absence of an existential distinction between God and man. In an 1844 sermon, Joseph Smith made a claim that profoundly shapes the way Mormons see the world: “God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man.” Parse this out and God himself becomes a finite, physical being. How, I wondered, can we have absolute confidence in a God whose power and knowledge are limited, not just by the rules of logic, as St. Thomas would have said, but by unknown barriers? A limited God cannot be our anchor in the face of extreme horrors or profound personal loss. In the face of terrible, inexplicable loss, Job did not place his trust in an “exalted man.” The God who spoke to Job did not start out on a world like ours. This God, who comforted Job and comforts millions of others every day, to whom we can truly pray “not my will but yours be done,” cannot be the limited being Mormons call “god.”
The Mormon “god,” who came from a world like ours, cannot be the creator of all worlds, as Scripture and reason tell us he is. The physical god of the Mormons cannot have been present at creation, when there was no matter. Furthermore, if all of us can become “gods,” then Mormonism is incompatible with Christian Trinitarianism and Jewish monotheism. It is polytheism.
Compounding all this, in my experience, is the fact that Mormons generally do not seek for serious answers. In fact, Mormon authorities actively discourage the marriage of faith and reason that we Catholics celebrate. I now profess openly what I always too silently believed: If a faith cannot be sustained in the face of serious questions, it is not a faith worth having.
If these reasons to reject Mormonism were sound for me over forty years ago, why did I stay? I could say it was culture, friendship, or inertia, and those reasons are accurate in a certain sense. But the full truth is found in Psalm 95: “Today if you hear His voice, harden not your heart.” I now know that at least four times in those forty years I specifically heard God calling me to his Church, but I turned away. My oldest and closest friend since 1970 told me twice directly that, like him, I should be a Catholic. I knew he was right. Yet I did nothing.
In one instance, the turning was literal. I had invited a Catholic theologian to speak at Utah State on religion and science, and I arranged a lunch for him with the Newman Club. After lunch, the parish priest and I talked for a long time. As our conversation wound down, I felt strongly that I should go with him to his office and talk about my faith. Yet I turned away and walked back to my office.
In the past two years, my journey towards the Catholic Church has brought me to a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ than I have ever had. I have not “given up my faith.” Leaving Mormonism for Catholicism is a journey many others are making, and it has allowed me to experience God’s love in a profoundly richer way.
Sang that and many, many other things like it, as well as all kinds of things, as a preacher's son. Heard hundreds of sermons. Memorized The Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, Scripture. Baptized as an infant. Catechized and confirmed. Officer of District Youth organization. Member of Men's group. etc., etc., etc. All that means nothing, Orthodox, Catholic, Reformed, Pentecostal, Baptist -- all to no avail for anyone.
Joining a church does not get you saved.
Singing "Gloria in Excelsis," mouthing Scripture and creeds, doing fine, moral works, defending a failed religious organization -- these will not buy your way into The God's Heaven and into The Kingdom of The Christ.
Only by coming under Holy Spirit Word-based conviction as an intelligent, responsible, accountable, practicing sin-laden depraved child of Satan, confessing and desiring to abandon his/her past life, and coming under the Blood of The Crucified One, will The Mighty God consent to even hear the pleas of this pitiful worm of a human.
Without shedding of His Blood, there is no remission of sins. He permitted that on Golgotha, once for all time, never needing a repeat performance. You can count on that. I did, and God saved me by His Grace through The Faith of The Anointed One, The Lord of All, Jesus, in whom I have placed all my trust. That happened long before I learned that baptism by immersion was God' will for me to be personally testifying in a public demonstration by submitting to a figurative-literal rite proclaiming an ongoing, everlasting salvation, as taught by the Holy Ghost (1 Pet. 3:21).
My salvation was not one in which some capricious god held his approval back until a few drops of water were flung on me by some priest or minister's fingers wetted in a baptismal font, at his whim and convenience, a will of the flesh, a work of man, by the will of man. No.
You can bet on that too.
Hate to bring this up again, but since you mentioned it, if I were looking for a religious group to affiliate with (as Sherlock is), it wouldn't be one which has persecuted and murdered at least hundreds and hundreds of thousands of other humans who rejected their false doctrines, and burned their opponents' vernacular Scriptures; let alone one which now still covers the errors of their clergy.
"And he said unto them, 'Ye are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.'" (Lk. 16:15)
Just an observation --
AMEN!
whew, that sounds good, it sounds like someone who really is a believer, someone who follows the Holy Spirit and has been saved by faith in Jesus Christ.
yes sir, it sounds good, but is it true or is it someone who is actually not serving the Lord Jesus Christ?
how is one to know? after all, those who are deceived, have no idea they are deceived. i’ve talked to Jehovah Witnesses that are absolutely convinced they are doing the will of the Lord Jesus Christ same for Mormons and now i see a “wittman christian” who sounds absolutely convinced he is doing the will of Jesus Christ.
well, how is one to know if they are truly following the will of God and have really submitted themself to the Lord Jesus Christ??
well, the Lord Himself tells us by their fruits you will know them. that is interesting isn’t it?
after all, Jesus also said false prophets will arise and lead many astray. how will they do this? will a wittman come denouncing Jesus Christ? no, Paul tells us Satan himself disguises himself and comes as an angel of light.
no, these false prophets will come and say great things about Jesus Christ, they will claim to believe on Him as their Lord and Savior, it will all sound so very nice.
so what is the acid test on whether someone is a true follower of Jesus Christ, as opposed to those who honor Him with their lips, but their heart is far from Him?
the test according to the Scripturs is - do they keep the Apostolic Faith?
for St Paul tells us in Romans 16:17-19
I appeal to you, brethern, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties IN OPPOSITION TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT; avoid them. FOR SUCH PERSONS DO NOT SERVE OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, BUT THEIR OWN APPETITES, AND BY FAIR AND FLATTERING WORDS THEY DECEIVE THE HEARTS OF THE SIMPLE-MINDED. for while your obedience is known to all, so that i rejoice over you, i would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil.
there you have it, if one does not keep the Apostolic Faith, i don’t care how much they think they love the Lord Jesus Christ and believe He died for their sins, THEY DO NOT SERVE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
They are deceived!
John says much the same thing in 2 John “anyone who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ, DOES NOT HAVE GOD”
what is the doctrine of Christ? the Apostolic Faith.
so someone may absorb the wittman teachings very well, but unless they keep the Apostolic Faith, they are lost and are outside of the Body of Christ.
so the questions need to be asked:
is someone who mocks God saved by Jesus Christ?
is someone who mocks the Apostolic Faith saved by Jesus Christ?
is someone who attacks the Sacrament of Baptism saved by Jesus Christ?
is someone who falsely accuses the brethern saved by Jesus Christ?
is someone who twists the Scriptures to oppose the Apostolic Faith saved by Jesus Christ?
according to the Scriptures, such a person is an enemy of God and are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. such a person is utterly deceived.
of course, the natural man is incapable of understanding these spiritual matters, his sinful nature keeps him seperate from Jesus and His Body, the Church.
so one can parrot all the wittmanism’s you want, if you don’t keep the Apostolic Faith, it is all useless.
our little exchange has proven that wittmanism can not stand the scrutiny of the Scriptures, and is in opposition to the doctrines taught by the Apostles.
your last post contained this little gem:
That happened long before I learned that baptism by immersion was God’ will for me to be personally testifying in a public demonstration by submitting to a figurative-literal rite proclaiming an ongoing, everlasting salvation, as taught by the Holy Ghost (1 Pet. 3:21).
now i don’t know what the “precise translation” that apparently is out there says, but 1 Peter 3:21 does not say:
1. baptism is done by immersion
2. baptism is a personal testimony
3. baptism is a public demonstration
4. baptism proclaims an ongoing everlasting salvation.
what Peter actually says is that baptism does now save us.
this is the Apostolic Faith, no “precise translation” required.
what it also says is that baptism is an “anti-type” the Scriptures contain many types ( symbols or pictures, mostly in the OT ) and anti-types ( which is the reality that the type symbolized )
here the type was Noah being SAVED by the water.
the anti-type, is Baptism which now saves us.
the anti-type is the REALITY, it is not the symbol.
another type/anti-type is Abraham willing to sacrifice his son Isaac was a type. the anti-type is the Father willing to sacrifice Jesus, so thru the shedding of His Blood, there can be the remission of sins.
the Apostolic Faith also calls for the unity of the Faith as Jesus prayed for in John 17 and Paul commanded in 1 Corinthians 1 and Ephesians 4.
so i see BB applauds your nice sounding words, but the fruit of them is a different matter.
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