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African-American Christians waver over vote
The Longview Daily News / The Associated Press ^ | September 16, 2012

Posted on 09/16/2012 1:15:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Some black clergy see no good presidential choice between a Mormon candidate and one who supports gay marriage, so they are telling their flocks to stay home on Election Day. That's a worrisome message for the nation's first African-American president, who can't afford to lose any voters from his base in a tight race.

The pastors say their congregants are asking how a true Christian could back same-sex marriage, as President Barack Obama did in May. As for Republican Mitt Romney, the first Mormon nominee from a major party, congregants are questioning the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its former ban on men of African descent in the priesthood....

(Excerpt) Read more at tdn.com ...


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Other Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bhohomosexualagenda; blackchurch; blacks; blackvote; christianity; christians; christianvote; homosexualagenda; homosexualmarriage; obama; romney; samesexmarriage

1 posted on 09/16/2012 1:15:10 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Obama supports gay marriage and taxpayer funded abortion on demand up to birth.

Romney opposes both.

There is no way for a self proclaimed “christian” to justify voting for Obama.


2 posted on 09/16/2012 1:20:37 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ll take it, though I would prefer conservative blacks wake up and leave the Dem Party.


3 posted on 09/16/2012 1:21:56 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Romney's Mormon beliefs are just that and he's entitled to believe whatever he wants. His Church changed their position on blacks getting the priesthood in 1978 and they discriminate against no one.

Obama not only believes in the gay agenda but has acted on it, even refusing to protect existing law, such as the DOMA.

Romney has personal religious beliefs and Obama acts against the law. Big difference.

4 posted on 09/16/2012 1:27:48 PM PDT by JPG (Make it happen)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Will Black voters choose their party over their God?


5 posted on 09/16/2012 1:28:15 PM PDT by Lexington Green (Will Black voters choose their party over their God?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s time to decide which means more: your skin color or your Lord.


6 posted on 09/16/2012 1:31:30 PM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How about the difference between one that supports life, and one that will allow the brains to be sucked out of a fetus's head, and will allow failed abortions to just die?

Sounds like these African-American "Christians" aren't thinking this through very well, or else they aren't so "Christian" after all.

7 posted on 09/16/2012 1:31:33 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: Lexington Green

To answer your question - YES, they will choose their party over God. Haven’t their voting patterns shown you the answer to this?


8 posted on 09/16/2012 1:31:34 PM PDT by Catsrus
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The candidate with the fewest number of supporters who just “stay home” for this election will win. We can’t let that be us.


9 posted on 09/16/2012 1:32:20 PM PDT by Rio (Tempis fugit.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some black clergy see no good presidential choice between a Mormon candidate and one who supports gay marriage, so they are telling their flocks to stay home on Election Day. That’s a worrisome message for the nation’s first African-American president, who can’t afford to lose any voters from his base in a tight race.

So Obama’s “base” is a race (black people)? Gee that is not racist at all!


10 posted on 09/16/2012 1:34:01 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Unfortunately, to many blacks such as Santita Jackson, Obama is the Lord.


11 posted on 09/16/2012 1:34:41 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: MNJohnnie

Nice qualifiers you applied to Romney there.
I supposed it is a way to justify his positions.


12 posted on 09/16/2012 1:36:29 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: 5thGenTexan

Great statement! AMEN!!!


13 posted on 09/16/2012 1:40:22 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia (USAF life and Navy wife...God Bless the USA!)
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To: svcw
Nice refusal to acknowledge the truth so you can keep rationalizing your support for Obama.

How about you try dealing in truth and fact from this point forward? How about you try getting over your sour grapes because your candidate of choice did not win the GOP nomination?

14 posted on 09/16/2012 1:41:52 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie

Nice try, same old tired boring song...really get something new.

Romney supports abortion - you qualified by making sure you said “not tax payer funded”

Romney supports homosexual unions and adoption - you qualified by making sure you said “marriage”.

No matter how you spin it you added qualifiers.


15 posted on 09/16/2012 1:52:04 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
congregants are questioning the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its former ban on men of African descent in the priesthood....

If they can't forgive the Mormon church for its past sins, how can they consider themselves Christian?

16 posted on 09/16/2012 1:53:02 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (True North- Strong Leader, Strong Dollar, Strong and Free!)
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To: MNJohnnie; svcw
your support for Obama.

You have been warned repeatedly by Mr. Robinson about brow-beating and harassing conservative freepers by calling them Obama supporters. You run away for a bit and come back again with the same schtick.

svcw is right. Romney has been marketed as "ABO". A lot of people who come to this forum are going to vote for him as just that - ABO. No need to bullshi-ite people by proclaiming that he is pro-life and pro-traditional marriage. He has yet to prove that. Everybody here knows his record.

17 posted on 09/16/2012 1:56:22 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If you honestly believe that the African American church community will not turn out just as much if not more for this election as they did in 2008, I think you will be surprised. Rev. Jesse, Rev. Al, Brother Charlie, Brother Elijah and maybe Sister Hillary have 6 weeks to paint the Organizer in Chief as the latest example of “whitey” trying to keep a brother down and they will flock to the polls. I would not be surprised to see a tearful and supposedly remorseful Obama show up at Dr. King's church confessin’ and witnessin’ all about his God. Of course it will be a sham but the undecided black church needs an excuse to vote for him. There may be at the most a 5% drop in black voter turnout since there is a remnant (God always has a remnant) that understand just how NON Christian this Alinskyite has been since his indoctrination in the Indonesian school. He has numerously referred to collective salvation. Glad mine was personal. I imagine the line will back up billions deep at the gates of Hell where collective salvation will be rewarded.
Make no mistake: the rule of thumb with the black vote is, First, color; second DemocRat (no matter how evil or degenerate), third, keep the pay window open. Somewhere around 8th or 9th they will finally get around to their religious filter but will have voted for Eric Holder's people's President by then. It will be the after thought as they leave the polling place.

It's sad to think in about 5 years the black community will be 1/3 the size of the Hispanic community. They lose more political clout with every passing year and then I don't remember the news bulletin from the NAALCP touting about how their numbers are swelling with a huge influx of Hispanics.

18 posted on 09/16/2012 1:56:51 PM PDT by cashless (Unlike Obama and his supporters, I'd rather be a TEA BAGGER than a TEA BAGGEE.)
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To: svcw

Very well just cling to your emotion based ignorance. Anyone who cannot see the fundamental difference between Romney and Obama has simply weld their mind shut and refused to look


19 posted on 09/16/2012 1:57:00 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: Moorings

Obama favors Gay Marriage and Taxpayer funded abortion on demand up to birth. He specifically had both positions written into the 2012 Democrat Party platform

Romney opposes both. Sorry Romney is not perfectly pure enough for you but anyone who cannot see the deep fundamental difference between the two is simply NOT looking.

Sorry your candidate of choice did not win the 2012 GOP nomination. Get over it.


20 posted on 09/16/2012 2:00:00 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No. They are not wavering. They will go for him at 94%. Book it.


21 posted on 09/16/2012 2:04:04 PM PDT by Jake8898
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To: Moorings; MNJohnnie; svcw

His issues statements and the Republican Party platform are both Pro-Life and pro-Traditional Family. If he wavers after being elected president, then we go after him. On the other hand, Mr. Obama will kill a baby that was born alive and feels that everyone should be able to marry. With a second term, I expect him to come out for polygamy and lowering the age of consent. But you go ahead and keep throwing up flak at Gov. Mitt Romney so that Mr. Obama slides into home. My FEMA camp is less than a mile away, so they’ll just march me there instead of sending a truck. Do you know where yours is at?


22 posted on 09/16/2012 2:08:30 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: Jake8898

Yes, but 94% of twenty millions and 94% of fifty millions are two different things. That’s what might happen with the gay marriage flap.


23 posted on 09/16/2012 2:10:46 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They’ll always be conflicted until they decide what they are — AFRICAN-Americans, or Americans. If someone calls himself African-American, I consider him a racist and not in tune with this country.


24 posted on 09/16/2012 2:11:51 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: MNJohnnie
You seem somewhat emotional about Romney to lie and spin for him. Some of us are not about to do that, even though he is carrying the party standard. It has nothing to do with our candidates losing. I know it is a difficult concept for the some to understand, but please try a little harder. We are also not simplistic enough to call long-time freepers "Obama supporters" at the drop of a hat.

Again Romney's RECORD on abortion and gay-marriage are bad. Anyway it is pointless to argue all that at this point. We were not looking for a perfectly pure candidate... just someone who was even moderately conservative. The hyperbole of the "perfect candidate" and "purists" e.t.c are just tired and overused. You are not winning anyone over.

25 posted on 09/16/2012 2:17:24 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: Moorings

Very well cling to your emotional ignorance and keep propagandizing for Obama

You can explain to God one day your actions. However, you will not be able to claim to him you were not warned about the results of your actions.


26 posted on 09/16/2012 2:21:26 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: MNJohnnie

Your obnoxious Rombattery is not helping at all with those of us who are going to hold our noses to vote for Romney. Not helping at all. He’s a flawed candidate who wavers a great deal on core conservative issues. Do not invoke the name of God in condemnation of anyone who recognizes this fact. You have no idea how badly this comes across.


27 posted on 09/16/2012 2:26:29 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: MNJohnnie
Who is propagandizing? Can you point out the propaganda in my posts. I just pointed out your spin, and your emotional and unwarranted attacks on freepers. Are you trying to bring God in to support all that?

What is emotional ignorance?... calling a spade a spade? Romney is the candidate to go up against BO. He is a lot better that BO. However, lets not attribute qualities to him that he has not earned yet.

28 posted on 09/16/2012 2:30:17 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think many of them will in fact stay away from the voting booths. That’s going to hurt Obama.


29 posted on 09/16/2012 2:33:57 PM PDT by scottjewell
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I don't think the Black church is really that conflicted. They've been allied with evil for about fifty years and not blinked at any abomination the liberals have endorsed.

Black "chrstians" are followers of Martin Luther King Jr. and unorthodox liberal Protestant who rejected many orthodox chrstian tenets of belief and accepted all the liberal "higher criticism" of the Bible. How many of the rest of the Black clergy do as well?

By rejecting the importance of super-rational taboos in favor of a purely rational morality, the Black Church has shown itself not African at all, but a continuation of the eighteenth century European "enlightenment." So much for their alleged opposition to "western civilization!"

30 posted on 09/16/2012 2:39:00 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

If Hilter and Stalin were up in an election against each other, I’d vote to replace the one in power. Constant turnover is the only way to keep either from becoming too powerful.


31 posted on 09/16/2012 2:42:27 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
2DV, I was trying to find the violin music to go with your post :-). I talk to conservative christians/independents regularly, when I talk politics and what liberals are doing they come back and tell me that the Repubs are a big disappointment as well, and just full of empty promises. I am not about to attribute qualities to Romney that he has not earned, as these folks know what his record was in MA. We just prove their point.

Anyway, you can disagree with me... we will just agree to disagree. I am not going to argue with you, as you're are one of my Palin friends. :-)

32 posted on 09/16/2012 2:48:54 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: 5thGenTexan

It’s time to decide which means more: your skin color or your Lord.


Nothing to with race. If you flipped the GOP and Democratic platforms, you’d see blacks voting 9 to 1 for Romney. We’ve seen this in other races where the black GOP candidate was crushed by a white Democrat. Pocketbook issues are the key, and the only way for the GOP to attract more black votes is to give up economic conservatism, which would mean endorsing the welfare state and racial preferences for blacks.


33 posted on 09/16/2012 2:56:29 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Moorings

I’ve never had any love for Governor Romney, but when the choice comes down to either him or Mr. Barack Hussein Obama, a man dead-set on destroying my country, the country of my birth and whose uniform I proudly wore, there is no contest. And that is the choice. No third party or write-in candidate is going to be sworn in next January.


34 posted on 09/16/2012 2:59:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: FreedomPoster

I’ll take it, though I would prefer conservative blacks wake up and leave the Dem Party.


They’ll do that as soon as the GOP embraces racial preferences for blacks and the welfare state. Ultimately, it’s all about pocketbook issues.


35 posted on 09/16/2012 3:03:09 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: aimhigh; Zionist Conspirator

I compare it to having a choice between Hubert Humphrey and Joseph Stalin. Both are “left-of-center” but anyone with a brain can see which one is preferable.


36 posted on 09/16/2012 3:03:10 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: svcw; MNJohnnie
We all have to vote our conscience. After much agonizing thought, sleepless nights and prayer, I will vote for Romney.

Imho, Obama hates and seeks to destroy our country. Romney, while flawed, is an American.

37 posted on 09/16/2012 3:05:29 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I do agree with your post there.


38 posted on 09/16/2012 3:21:26 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: aimhigh; 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t see what your two posts have to do with my observations about the Black church. Perhaps they were addressed to me as a mistake?


39 posted on 09/16/2012 3:24:49 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These folks need to be reminded that there is no religious test for holding public office in the USA.

There are plenty of good reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney (NONE of which outweigh the fact that he is not Obama, btw), but the fact he is a Mormon isn’t one of them.

Even Obama’s despicable faux Christian religious views do not actually disqualify him (although were he a Republican or even a white Democrat they would have), his communist beliefs do.


40 posted on 09/16/2012 4:16:13 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I was adding my $0.2 to aimhigh’s analogy and he/she had addressed it to you.


41 posted on 09/16/2012 4:16:28 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Nice deflections. I am applauding you.


42 posted on 09/16/2012 4:36:18 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Moorings

Thanks Moor


43 posted on 09/16/2012 4:37:17 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How 2nd, do we “go after him” after the election when there are people who are blind to him now?
Will we hear, can’t do that now the mid terms are coming up
Will we hear, can’t do that now the election is coming up
My fear is that rabid supporters of Romney now, will be who they are now, berating and eviscerating anyone who challenges Romney’s action.


44 posted on 09/16/2012 4:40:19 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

No problem, sis.


45 posted on 09/16/2012 4:48:40 PM PDT by Moorings
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To: Zhang Fei

You’re probably right.

There’s also the effect of the high numbers of black middle class and up who work for the gov’t. They’re going to vote for the party of more gov’t every time.


46 posted on 09/16/2012 5:46:58 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Stupid advice by these black clergy to “stay home” on election day based on bad presidential candidates. Even if one is thoroughly disgusted by either presidential candidate (as I am,) there is still the congressional races that are pivotal. And in 4 states, marriage hangs in the balance.

Again, stupid, stupid advice.


47 posted on 09/16/2012 7:59:38 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: jocon307
These folks need to be reminded that there is no religious test for holding public office in the USA.

Perhaps you should review your understanding of the Constitution. The Constitution limits the powers of the government. The pertinent part of Article VI:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Why was this necessary? Because so many of the original thirteen state were established as religious enclaves for persecuted Christians in Europe. Article VI forbid states from requiring office holders to be of the official state religion, for example, you didn't have to be Catholic in Maryland, Presbyterian in Massachusetts, or Episcopalian in Virginia to hold office. Remember that there were official state religions at the time the U.S. Constitution was drafted.

There are plenty of good reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney (NONE of which outweigh the fact that he is not Obama, btw), but the fact he is a Mormon isn’t one of them.

An individual can use any reason he or she wants. The Constitution has no limit on how the individual makes that choice.

I agree that there are lots of good reasons not to vote for Mitt and I don't intend to vote for him. While I am opposed to Mormonism, I wouldn't vote for Mitt if he sincerely came to Christ tomorrow. His Mormonism isn't the reason I'm not supporting Romney - it is his politics.

48 posted on 09/16/2012 9:17:08 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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To: CommerceComet

I don’t think we disagree on anything, aside from the voting for Romney part.


49 posted on 09/16/2012 9:27:26 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307
I don’t think we disagree on anything, aside from the voting for Romney part.

I apologize if I read something into your comment that wasn't there.

50 posted on 09/17/2012 8:13:20 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Obama vs. Romney - clear evidence that our nation has been judged by God and found wanting.)
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