Eastern Germany: the most godless place on Earth

The Guardian ^ | 09/23/2012 | Peter Thompson

[SeekAndFind]

They are sending missionaries to eastern Germany. A recent study called Beliefs About God Across Time and Countries found that 52.1% of people asked whether they believed in God identified themselves as atheists. This compared with only 10.3% in western Germany. Indeed, the survey was unable to find a single person under the age of 28 in eastern Germany who believed in God. Obviously there are some – I think I may have even met some once – but the survey was unable to find them. On the face of it this is an extraordinary finding and it is something that needs some careful explanation.

Different reasons are adduced for the absence of religion in the east. The first one that is usually brought out is the fact that that area was run by the Communist party from 1945 to 1990 and that its explicit hostility to religion meant that it was largely stamped out. However, this is not entirely the case. In fact, after initial hostilities in the first years of the GDR, the SED came to a relatively comfortable accommodation with what was called the Church in Socialism. The churches in the GDR were given a high degree of autonomy by SED standards and indeed became the organisational focus of the dissident movement of the 1990s, which was to some extent led by Protestant pastors.

In addition to an accommodation with religion, the party also deliberately created alternative poles of integration for the population. Young people were brought up in a highly ideological atmosphere and were required to undergo a so-called Jugendweihe – a sort of atheist confirmation. Interestingly, this ceremony has survived the end of communism and many young people still voluntarily enter into it.

[TigerClaws]

Ripe for Muslim takeover.

[whitedog57]

More Godless than Chicago?

[gop4lyf]

I would say NAMESTAN (North Africa, the Middle East, the “Stans”) were the most Godless since they worship Satan.

[bigheadfred]

Guess ole Pete ain’t been to the white house lately.

[null and void]

Nahh, they have a small ‘g’ god. That’s qualitatively different than believing no God exists.

[captmar-vell]

With so many unlikely and all but impossible (on their own) events falling into place and aligning precisely for the latter days, it always fascinates me that so many are unable, unwilling or uninterested to dig a little deeper, their experience seems to be first arrogance, and then where we are today, to them is somehow just how its always been, but that’s not even true on the face if it,

We’re told in Revelation 9:6
“And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”

This is written for the richard dawkins, bill maher atheist crowd, who believe, expect and even desire this world to be all there is, then nothing

When they ‘see these things begin to come to pass’ precisely as Jesus said, instead of looking up, they wont know how to respond, they will be troubled in the spirit, but not have the depth of understanding to find their way because they’ve rejected it for so long to the point of having their consciousness seared.

If you know anyone like this, all you can do is pray for them.

[daniel1212]

Institutionalized Protestantism can be more dead than its Catholic counterpart. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/RevealingStatistics.html#4

[robowombat]

The Guardian is a liberal rag and the comments to this article fit its mindset perfectly.

[fso301]

Which god? Were they asked about Wotan, or Odin?

[elcid1970]

Heh, heh, kind of like asking modern Greeks if they still worship Zeus, Athena, or Aphrodite.

And you don’t have to be German to experience a thrill listening to “Ride of the Valkyries”. But it helps.

;^)

[Cronos]

well, no, they are pretty anti-islamic too.

But the main reason for this godlessness stems from the 1800s and the Prussian king's attempt to merge Lutheranism and Calvinism. Both groups got along pretty well before that, but the King, a committed Calvinist in charge of predominantly Lutheran people forced this merger

It didn't make sense as both sides have different beliefs -- especially with regards to the Eucharist

Daniel is somewhat correct about institutionalization -- in Prussia/East Germany's case, it became that the Church forced to merge together by the power of the state became another department of the state

And that (close association with the state) has been bad for Western Churches (though not as bad for the Eastern or Oriental strangely)

In the case of Catholicism it was tempered by the fact that the head of the Church was not a national head.

in the case of Anglicanism and the various Lutheran churches not so much as temporal and spiritual power rested in one person. Among Calvinists in Europe the same happened except in Switzerland (well, ok, the only pure Calvinist state was the Netherlands while Scotland was under the English thumb).

As a Catholic I contrast the respect the Church still has in places like Poland or Croatia or Slovakia where they were not institutionalized as compared to France or other places.

In the case of the Lutheran-Calvinists from Eastern Germany it was a double-whammy with the instituionalization as well as nationalism.

Perhaps even one might argue that the King's forcible merger gave the nationalists in German more of an opportunity to replace Christianity with nationalism.

Islam doesn't hold the same appeal with East Germans who seem more inclined to nationalism -- the neo-nazis in Germany tend to congregate in the Eastern part.

[Cronos]

when I listen to the “Ride of the Valkyries” I just hear “kill the wabbit... “ :)

[elcid1970]

Before I put on “Ride of the Valkyries”:

“They’re gonna play music.”

“What?”

“Yeah, they’re gonna play Wagner, scares the hell out of the slopes.”

“This is a Romeo Foxtrot, shall we dance?” (Commander switches on tape deck).

From “Apocalypse Now”, for those not as ancient as I.

;^)

[redgolum]

One of the reasons my great grandfather came to Nebraska was to escape the Prussian Union.

The current German church is not really Lutheran, it is more of a liturgical Calvinist. I was honestly shocked when I found that out.

[Cronos]

I did not know that — can you point me to where they have their statement of beliefs?

[redgolum]

I will try to look it up.

There are a number of “Free” Lutheran churches in Germany who are not affiliated with the German State church.

Here is the wiki article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Church_in_Germany

The Unified churches are of the Prussian Union type, the Reformed are what we would call Baptist, and the Lutheran are more Lutheran than the Unionists. However, the training and leadership for the overall Church is the same. The beliefs have bled together. If you read stories of Bonhoeffer, you find mention that the seminaries did not teach much about the Lord's Supper/Communion because there is not a “unified” teaching on it in the State Church.

Here is the one in communion with the LCMS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Evangelical%E2%80%94Lutheran_Church

[Cronos]

ah, the article talks about how German Lutherans emigrated to the US forming the LCMS..

[Cronos]

Question — we know that the Nutzis created a “Christian” church — was the forced Prussian Union the majority of the ones who joined this group? That would confirm the theory that this government intrusion was the root cause of this Christian fall..

[redgolum]

Yes they were. But to be fair many of the Confessing church came from the Union also. The Old Lutherans, those that were left, didn't get folded into the Reich Church. But the numbers were very small, as it was viewed as un German to not belong to the Union church.